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Subject: NPPS Leadership Team
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Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting
- From: Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com>
- To: Brett Viren <bv AT bnl.gov>
- Cc: Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
- Subject: Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting
- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 18:13:32 -0500
Thanks Brett, it’s good to have your assessment. Do you have an example of “right way” geometry?
Torre
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 1:51 PM Brett Viren <bv AT bnl.gov> wrote:
A few comments, in case any might be useful:
- The format of the document kind of encourages "us vs them" but even
with that there is a lot of bad faith statements. They clearly
demonstrate very unhealthy "collaboration".
I also sense that a lot of the statements in blue come from a place of
not really understanding the fun4all's design. I can't say I do, but
looking through a few of the linked files it's clear to me that ROOT
.C scripts are used as configuration files while blue text seems to
see them as application code.
This confusion may be in part due to some lacking in fun4all docs
(which we discussed today deserve some attention). At the same time,
the blue text writer (I assume) is a deep expert in software
development so should be able to glean what I did after a few minutes
of browsing the code.
- I note that fun4all is used in experiments beyond just PHENIX/sPHENIX
(eg SeaQuest at least).
- g4e does have bad code "smell" (I mean this in the term of art way).
Lack of consistent indentation, a lot of commented-out vestigial code
instead of simple removal, giant "#if 0" blocks leaving cruft around.
The string comparisons in the stepper are indeed real and not even
done in some way that exploits a generalized naming convention, just
miles of string comparison. I stopped there because I detest GitLab's
web interface.
- As a past contributor to the project, I wouldn't list VGM as such a
major benefit. It's more of a hindrance (sorry to say).
- For "geometry parameters", again it seems clear that the ROOT scripts
are not being seen as configuration files but application code.
(otoh, g4e literally hard-codes the geometry, so, pot/kettle)
[My opinion: both approaches are wrong. I think the "right" way to
handle geometry is to abstract the description of the geometry into
some independent, high level model and from that model develop
compilers that can generate GDML, G4 C++, interpreters of the model
that directly produce G4 C++ objects, generators of reference
documentation, visualization forms, and whatever other forms might be
useful. Such modeling can likely be used for as-built geometry.]
All in all, it's a very angry table.
-Brett.
Torre Wenaus via Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
writes:
> EIC simu table
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T-lGz_AtJt5ZkwUQaUCouFqrr6RNykPdA8FsUD7QmsM/edit#heading=h.ln6z26ycplzg
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 9:36 AM Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Leadership team meeting following the group meeting
> Torre
>
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-
[Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Torre Wenaus, 11/22/2019
-
Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Torre Wenaus, 11/22/2019
- Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting, Torre Wenaus, 11/22/2019
-
Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Brett Viren, 11/22/2019
-
Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Torre Wenaus, 11/22/2019
- Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting, pinkenburg, 11/22/2019
-
Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Brett Viren, 11/23/2019
- Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting, Torre Wenaus, 11/25/2019
-
Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Torre Wenaus, 11/22/2019
-
Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] Leadership team meeting following the group meeting,
Torre Wenaus, 11/22/2019
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