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Subject: sPHENIX MAPS tracker discussion

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Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force

From: Ming Liu <ming AT bnl.gov>
To: Barbara Jacak <bvjacak AT lbl.gov>, nouicer <rachid.nouicer AT bnl.gov>
Cc: chiu AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov, mitay AT mit.edu, riken-intt-list AT ml.riken.jp, sPHENIX-MVTX <sphenix-maps-l AT lists.bnl.gov>, todoroki AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov
Subject: Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:15:10 +0200

Dear Rachid and all,

You correctly pointed out the 3^rd layer of MVTX provides the must have redundancy for precision 3-D tracking near IP.

The average thickness of MVTX layer is 0.35%X0, for 3 layers, that is about 1.1%X0 in total, not 5%. Of course, there are small overlapped regions.

For INTT, simulation shows 2 active layers can already provide the same tracking efficiency as 3- or 4-layer INTT, for redundancy reasons, 3-layer INTT is required.

4-layer INTT may be desired for some other reasons, such as the primary vertexing in pp (hence my question to the simulation taskforce) or open HF trigger that some of us are exploring. But Upsilon mass resolution would be worse compared to 3-layer configuration, as shown by simulations.

Cheers,

Ming

PS – the good news is that the mechanical integration team has been making good progress to integrate MVTX with 4-layer INTT, and it seems very feasible, 3-layer INTT can only ease the integration task, I think.

Ming Xiong Liu

P-25, MS H846 TEL: 505-667-7125(Office)

Physics Division 631-344-7821(BNL)

LANL 630-840-5708(FNAL)

Los Alamos, NM 87545 FAX: 505-665-7020

From: Barbara Jacak <bvjacak AT lbl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 5:49 PM
To: Rachid Nouicer <rachid.nouicer AT bnl.gov>
Cc: Ming Liu <ming AT bnl.gov>, Christof Roland <christof.roland AT cern.ch>, sPHENIX-MVTX <sphenix-maps-l AT lists.bnl.gov>, <riken-intt-list AT ml.riken.jp>, Mickey Chiu <chiu AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>, <mitay AT mit.edu>, Takahiro Todoroki <todoroki AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
Subject: Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force

Dear all,

Redundancy in the inner tracker is a must. The particles at RHIC are much softer than those looked at by ATLAS and CMS, so the optimization is likely different for sPHENIX.

best regards,

Barbara

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 8:32 AM nouicer <rachid.nouicer AT bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Ming,
> To me, it seems 2-layer (or 3-layer for high efficiency) INTT already sufficient and preferred for better Upsilon resolutions.

To me, the same thing can be said for MVTX, I believe we only need two layers of MVTX layers. The third MVTX layer is only for redundancy in case dead region. The MVTX total radiation length is already > 5% with three layers.

I believe it is too risky to have only two INTT layers, in case we have a dead region from beam blast. I don't agree with you that two INTT layers ALREADY sufficient!
I think if we take a conservative approach towards MVTX ( 5% radiation length) , three layers, I think we should take the same approach for INTT, three layers.

ATLAS/CMS have three layers for the intermediate tracker and two layers for inner tracker pixel/hybrid in the new upgrades.
Sincerely,
Rachid

On 09/26/2018 10:58 AM, Ming Liu wrote:
Hi Christof, Tony and all,

What is the status of evaluating the impact of INTT on vertex seeding in high rate p+p/p+A collisions? It seems this is pretty much the last major item to be resolved to address the recent MVTX review committee’s recommendations:

You have already made excellent progress with tracking simulations and showed that:
For the global tracking, MVTX+TPC is already showing excellent rejection of pileups in pp collisions, INTT seems not contributing much for further rejection power.
Tracking efficiency seems very similar for 2/3/4 layers of INTT.
Di-electron mass resolution prefers less INTT layers (or less mass in general)

To me, it seems 2-layer (or 3-layer for high efficiency) INTT already sufficient and preferred for better Upsilon resolutions.

Cheers,
Ming
--
Ming Xiong Liu
P-25, MS H846 TEL: 505-667-7125(Office)
Physics Division 631-344-7821(BNL)
LANL   630-840-5708(FNAL)
Los Alamos, NM 87545 FAX: 505-665-7020

From: sPHENIX-MAPS-l <sphenix-maps-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Christof Roland <christof.roland AT cern.ch>
Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 7:21 PM
To: Jin Huang <jhuang AT bnl.gov>
Cc: Mickey Chiu <chiu AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>, sPHENIX-INTT <sphenix-intt-l AT lists.bnl.gov>, Sanghoon Lim <sanghoon.lim AT colorado.edu>, Molly Taylor <mitay AT mit.edu>, sphenix-maps-l <sphenix-maps-l AT lists.bnl.gov>, Takahiro Todoroki <todoroki AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
Subject: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force

Hi Everybody,

tomorrow we will have the next meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force.
The indico page, bluejeans link and google doc can be found here:

https://indico.bnl.gov/event/5106/

https://bluejeans.com/553808487/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17PJdu94Ydg25V-cTHIYfSbkfojH4ZUEfsfoZPm0RDb0/edit

See you tomorrow!

Christof
_______________________________________________ sPHENIX-MAPS-l mailing list sPHENIX-MAPS-l AT lists.bnl.gov https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/sphenix-maps-l
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                                               /                        /
 Rachid Nouicer                               /                        /
 Physicist, Brookhaven National Laboratory   /                        /
 Address:                                   /                        /
 Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL)      /                        /
 Physics Department, Building 510c        /                        /
 20 Pennsylvania Avenue                  /                        /
 Upton, New York, 11973, U.S.A.         / Phone: +1 631 344 8433 /
 E-mail : rachid.nouicer AT bnl.gov       /  Fax: : +1 631 344 3253/
 Web:http://www4.rcf.bnl.gov/~nouicer /                        /
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Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force , (continued)
- [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Christof Roland, 09/11/2018
  - [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Christof Roland, 09/18/2018
    - Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Sanghoon Lim, 09/19/2018
      - Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Ming Liu, 09/19/2018
    - [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Christof Roland, 09/25/2018
      - Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Ming Liu, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, nouicer, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Barbara Jacak, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Ming Liu, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Gunther M Roland, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Anthony Frawley, 09/26/2018
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Barbara Jacak, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, nouicer, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Christof Roland, 09/26/2018
        
        Re: [Sphenix-maps-l] Next Meeting of the Inner Tracker Task Force, Ming Liu, 09/26/2018