STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG

[ShinIchi Esumi <esumi.shinichi.gn AT u.tsukuba.ac.jp>]

Dear Niseem
Thank you for the comparison plots. 

(1) I’m surprised to see the scaling factors between data and model are so 
similar. 
What kind of experimental effect did you take in to account in your model 
calc, 
especially in terms of acceptance and efficiencies etc? I would think you 
need to 
adjust something in order to make the shuffled width to be the same between 
them, 
because it would be mostly driven by the number of particles. Similar 
adjustment 
would be needed/feasible for having the resolution to be similar, or? Could 
you tell 
us what you have done for this? 

(2) Why did you choose here to show the model with 3% case, where the signal 
is 
about an order of magnitude larger than data and you do have 2% case, where 
the 
signal is much smaller and closer to the data. 

(3) Is mixed DS distribution exactly symmetric between positive and negative 
DS 
region for both DS and DSp cases? Have you confirmed this by overlaying the 
positive/negative flipped same distribution? 

(4) The same question on the out-of-plane DS distribution (DSp distribution), 
it is 
symmetric with respect to positive/negative flipping? It looks like this is 
the case 
for both data and model, when I look at your first two pages of the attached 
file, 
however the next two pages do look strange, please make sure what you are 
plotting in p3 and p4. Left/right panels do look same in p3 and left/right 
panels 
seem to be flipped? Since I see the signal only in out-of-plane (DSp) for 
AMPT, or? 

(5) Does the out-of-plane ratio C(DSp) have to be symmetric between positive 
and negative regions? It does look like more or less the case in p5 and p6, 
however 
out-of-plane data does seem to show somewhat opposite asymmetry compared 
to the in-plane case at least in the experimental data, is this what you 
would expect? 
This is not really clear in the model, maybe because of the statistics. But I 
would 
assume you know the answer since you must have played with the model to 
include 
some experimental effects and/or physics effects etc, or? 

Best regards, ShinIchi 

> On Apr 17, 2021, at 11:44, Niseem via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> 
> wrote:
> 
> Dear ShinIchi,
> 
> As I stated early the AMPT work is published anyone can use it as it's from 
> the paper. If you want I can remake Fig.1 to separate the data from the 
> AMPT.
>  With that being stated, I expanded my slides to include step-by-step plots 
> from AMPT as well as the scaling factors. I hope this good for the time.
> 
> It's okay to ask we all want to understand the physics in a good way :)
> See the updated file attached.
> 
> Niseem
> 
> 
> On 4/16/21 6:44 PM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>> Dear Niseem
>> I understood your situation, one can do limited things in a limited time.
>> Since you are comparing your data with the AMPT to argue about physics
>> implication, therefore I would still like to see them (data and model) 
>> side by side
>> in each step of your analysis, especially you say “S -> S’ -> S” is just 
>> the scaling
>> on R, which is done separately between them, so I would guess the scaling 
>> factors
>> are different between them, so the scaling would directly impact on your 
>> comparison.
>> If you do have everything in your analysis note on the experimental data 
>> and also all
>> the information on the model in your published paper, you could collect 
>> them all
>> these necessary plots/tables from the different places to show in one 
>> place, and
>> try to convince us your data-model comparison is indeed reasonable or not.
>> Best regards, ShinIchi
>> 
>>> On Apr 17, 2021, at 7:06, Niseem via Star-fcv-l 
>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ShinIchi,
>>> 
>>> For make it clear the slides I sent some slides to answer some of your 
>>> points. I'm doing only the 10-30 which I will present in the APS.
>>> AMPT is published and I sent the 2-papers before.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Could you overlay 2 or 4 data sets from p19 in one plot (A),
>>> and show their relation to p20 in (B), then to p21 in (C),
>>> for both data and ampt side-by-side : (A,B,C) 3 plots x 2 case?
>>> 
>>>>> this will be found at my slides sent today.
>>> and for a few centrality cases and a few q2 selections? : 3 plots x (3+3) 
>>> cases?
>>> Maybe also for a few pT windows as you did in p12?    : 3 plots x 3 cases?
>>> And also for a few <Ach> window as you did in p16?   : 3 plots x 3 cases?
>>> 
>>>>> I will sent those after the meeting
>>> And I would also like to see the analysis steps
>>> S -> S’ -> S” for both data and ampt                            : 3 plots 
>>> x 3 cases?
>>>>> No steps we just scale the x-axis the numbers are provided in my slides 
>>>>> sent today.
>>> 
>>> I hope this help,
>>> Niseem
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/16/21 12:59 PM, Niseem via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>> Hi ShinIchi,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your email!
>>>> 
>>>> As you know life is not very start all the time so I do my best to get 
>>>> some of what you asked for.
>>>> Please find attached the plots for 10-30 central Au+Au at 200 GeV. This 
>>>> is related to what I will show at the APS.
>>>> When I have more time (since I'm changing house those days) I will send 
>>>> you more info as you asked.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Niseem
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/16/21 11:23 AM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>> Dear Niseem
>>>>> I do not see any of the supporting analysis plots of your results here 
>>>>> yet that you’ve promised…
>>>>> Best regards, ShinIchi
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2021, at 17:21, Niseem via Star-fcv-l 
>>>>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> Please find the page for the preliminary-plots at this link,
>>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/niseem/preliminary-plots-quadrupole-charge-separation
>>>>>> Thanks, Niseem
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Niseem via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] STAR presentation by Niseem Magdy Abdelwahab 
>>>>>> Abdelrahman for APS April Meeting 2021 submitted for review
>>>>>> Date: April 15, 2021 16:57:15 JST
>>>>>> To: ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>>> Reply-To: Niseem <niseemmagdy AT yahoo.com>, "STAR Flow, Chirality and 
>>>>>> Vorticity PWG" <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear ShinIchi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So sorry I did not see this email before.
>>>>>> I can do that in fast way for the normal R_2. I will need more time to 
>>>>>> create all of the requested plots.
>>>>>> I will work on that now and hope to send you some plots very soon.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Niseem
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 4/15/21 2:25 AM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Niseem
>>>>>>> I was hoping at least to see some of the answers to my earlier 
>>>>>>> questions/requests
>>>>>>> (attached below) to your pwg presentation last week before approving 
>>>>>>> your plots as
>>>>>>> preliminary for the APS presentation, but I did not see the answers, 
>>>>>>> maybe I’ve missed?
>>>>>>> I remember you have mentioned that you would be indicating your 
>>>>>>> previous presentation
>>>>>>> and analysis notes for the possible answers that you could point-out. 
>>>>>>> I would also think
>>>>>>> the step-by-step guidance of your analysis and correction procedures 
>>>>>>> would also be
>>>>>>> appreciated and useful in the conference like APS, since people like 
>>>>>>> to see what you
>>>>>>> really did.
>>>>>>> Best regards, ShinIchi
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: ShinIchi Esumi <esumi.shinichi.gn AT u.tsukuba.ac.jp>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 7/Apr/2021 Wed. 9:30AM 
>>>>>>>> at BNL
>>>>>>>> Date: April 8, 2021 1:39:00 JST
>>>>>>>> To: "STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG" 
>>>>>>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dear Niseem
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the correct link in the chat window :
>>>>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/niseem/quadrupole-charge-separation-measurements-auau-collisions-implications-chiral-magnetic-w
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the plots in our backup slides.
>>>>>>>> Could you overlay 2 or 4 data sets from p19 in one plot (A),
>>>>>>>> and show their relation to p20 in (B), then to p21 in (C),
>>>>>>>> for both data and ampt side-by-side : (A,B,C) 3 plots x 2 case?
>>>>>>>> and for a few centrality cases and a few q2 selections? : 3 plots x 
>>>>>>>> (3+3) cases?
>>>>>>>> Maybe also for a few pT windows as you did in p12? : 3 plots x 3 
>>>>>>>> cases?
>>>>>>>> And also for a few <Ach> window as you did in p16? : 3 plots x 3 
>>>>>>>> cases?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And I would also like to see the analysis steps
>>>>>>>> S -> S’ -> S” for both data and ampt                            : 3 
>>>>>>>> plots x 3 cases?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sorry to ask you too much, though.
>>>>>>>> I would like to see these plots in order to understand the analysis 
>>>>>>>> better,
>>>>>>>> which could also be helpful (or even used) for your APS/DNP talk?
>>>>>>>> Best regards, ShinIchi
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 4/15/21 3:05 AM, Niseem via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Prithwish,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for your nice comments, please find my updated slides at the 
>>>>>>> same link
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/presentations/aps-april-meeting-2021/characterization-quadrupole-charge-separation-200-gev-implicati
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> slide#7 Mention how centrality was done.
>>>>>>> I did not understand what you mean do i need to say that we do 
>>>>>>> centrality by cutting on multiplicity?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For the AMPT data I'm using the a published plots which i added 
>>>>>>> reference to it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Niseem
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 4/13/21 4:01 PM, Prithwish Tribedy via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Niseem,
>>>>>>>>   The slides look good. I have a few comments -- with these included 
>>>>>>>> I sign off.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Since you have new preliminary results please follow the STAR policy 
>>>>>>>> of making a page (if you haven't done so yet). Regarding the model 
>>>>>>>> plots, I would also request you to make the AMPT data available on 
>>>>>>>> RCF somewhere.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> General comments:
>>>>>>>> 1. I think we need to make a point that this analysis is promising 
>>>>>>>> and still in the exploratory phase as we need more time to explore 
>>>>>>>> the sensitivity to different background scenarios. Maybe some help 
>>>>>>>> from the theorists would be welcome. Also, isobar data may help to 
>>>>>>>> establish the efficacy of the observable. It would be great if you 
>>>>>>>> can add a few comments along these lines.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2. Please make sure not only every plot but each panel has a label 
>>>>>>>> saying either "STAR Preliminary" or "AMPT".
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 3. Put more details about the AMPT model on the slides. In 
>>>>>>>> particular, the version, link to publications wherever applicable.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Specific comments on the slides:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> slide#4: "Prior/ongoing" --> "Prior"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  "make more discerning" --> "make a discerning"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> slide#6: You need to define what "f" (or "f_q") is.
>>>>>>>> What is the value of "f" on lower right plot ?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> slide#7 "Run-11 data" --> "data from year 2011"
>>>>>>>> Mention how centrality was done.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> slide #8:
>>>>>>>> "The correlator response in " --> "The correlator response to" (this 
>>>>>>>> sounds better)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> slide#9: Put the centrality for AMPT on this plot.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Slide#10:
>>>>>>>> Somewhere on this slide you need to put a quantitative statement. 
>>>>>>>> How about:
>>>>>>>> "Variation of q_2 leading to ~30% variation of v_2 in 10-30% 
>>>>>>>> centrality does not lead to any significant variation of R_{Ψ2}" ?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Slide#11:
>>>>>>>> Left plot inset requires more labels for x and y axes.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Slide#12:
>>>>>>>> This is the best place to put the comment on the exploratory nature 
>>>>>>>> of this study and add that more model  studies on sensitivity to 
>>>>>>>> background underway after the last bullet.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Prithwish
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2021-04-10 15:53, webmaster--- via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Niseem Magdy Abdelwahab Abdelrahman (niseemmagdy AT yahoo.com) has 
>>>>>>>>> submitted a
>>>>>>>>> material for a review, please have a look:
>>>>>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/54618
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> If you have any problems with the review process, please contact
>>>>>>>>> webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>>>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>>> 
>>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
>> _______________________________________________
>> Star-fcv-l mailing list
>> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l
> <Niseem_cmw_for_pwg.pdf>_______________________________________________
> Star-fcv-l mailing list
> Star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l