STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG

[Chunjian Zhang <chun-jian.zhang AT stonybrook.edu>]

Dear Shinlchi,

Thank you for your nice questions and comments, please find my answers below: 

Thank you for your detailed answers to the questions. I now understood the difficulty of the 

scaling of the multiplicity axis between species before making the ratio. Together with your 

page 5 of your slide, could you please show us the overlaid refmult_corr distributions between 

two species (both in linear- and log- y-scale plots), where the ratio have an interesting 

dip-structure at ~250 in our isobar publication Fig.2 with N_trk_offline scale, which is not 

much different from the shoulder at ~300. So the direct shape comparison of the two isobar 

refmult distributions could be valuable to be compared with your page 5. Also the ratio of 

refmult can be compared with your ratio from your page 4 with the same multiplicity scale. 

I would like to say this suggestion is really really good and thank you so much. Please find the new requested plots in the slide 5,6,7 in https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/isobar_nuclear_deformation_0929_Collmeeting_czhang_FCV_requests.pdf

From this refmult ratio going above one at large multiplicity, I thought we do have the 

high-end of the distribution to be different and higher for the Ru than Zr, or?

I can not give you a robust answer now. But I have three opinions for this nice question:

1) In the view of particle production, Ru and Zr has same Npart in UCC collisions. But the shape is related to neutron skin and deformation. In the two component model, the difference are x and Ncoll, but I believe nobody select the difference x for Ru and Zr, right? So the Ncoll is the only difference. As Prithwish's suggestion in the last CME group meeting, (sorry I missed it, but I read the meeting note), when you define the centrality definition, one need to include neutron skin and deformation together including Ru with large beta_2 small skin, Zr with small beta_2, large beta_3 and large skin. 

2) As I showed in the last email, I did not see the high-end are different between Ru and Zr with the stopping location at 469.5 from official CME paper. I hope we will learn more if we consider more. 

3) Please find the Jiangyong’s comments in his nice paper page5 last sentence: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2106.08768.pdf

Thank you also for the effect of different centrality definitions, but what you have shown on 

Jun/08 are mostly for the vn measurements, where I was concerned more on the mean pT 

fluctuation measurements, so I would wait for your future studies. Thanks again for all the 

hard works and nice results. 

I will address them in the following FCV meeting. 

Again. Thank you for your nice comments and discussion. 

Best regards 

Chunjian 

On Sep 30, 2021, at 3:25 AM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Chunjian

Thank you for your detailed answers to the questions. I now understood the difficulty of the 

scaling of the multiplicity axis between species before making the ratio. Together with your 

page 5 of your slide, could you please show us the overlaid refmult_corr distributions between 

two species (both in linear- and log- y-scale plots), where the ratio have an interesting 

dip-structure at ~250 in our isobar publication Fig.2 with N_trk_offline scale, which is not 

much different from the shoulder at ~300. So the direct shape comparison of the two isobar 

refmult distributions could be valuable to be compared with your page 5. Also the ratio of 

refmult can be compared with your ratio from your page 4 with the same multiplicity scale. 

From this refmult ratio going above one at large multiplicity, I thought we do have the 

high-end of the distribution to be different and higher for the Ru than Zr, or? But you say 

they might be in deed similar as I also see the ratio coming back to one >400 in Fig.2? 

Therefore I would like to see them overlaid in both linear- and log- y-scale... 

Thank you also for the effect of different centrality definitions, but what you have shown on 

Jun/08 are mostly for the vn measurements, where I was concerned more on the mean pT 

fluctuation measurements, so I would wait for your future studies. Thanks again for all the 

hard works and nice results. 

Best regards, ShinIchi

2021/09/30 12:55、Chunjian Zhang <chun-jian.zhang AT stonybrook.edu>のメール:

Dear Shinlchi,

（sorry, I fixed some typos, please look at this email）

Hello. Thank you for your nice questions and comments. Please find my answer below:

Thanks for the information. The plots you showed in your slides page 10 from yesterday 
(still this morning for you) do look like the ratio with un-normalized ones you have in your 
page 4 of this first link-file below, or? Later, you also have comparison with normalized ones, 
but the definition seems to be somewhat different from the page 10 from yesterday. So 
please confirm about the definitions.  

I add slide 5 with the new definition from Jiangyong’s recent paper (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.00604.pdf) in https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/isobar_nuclear_deformation_0929_Collmeeting_czhang_FCV_requests.pdf 

Now we agreed to show the plots just with (as a function of) RefMult_corr (= X), just for 
my curiosity, I would like to see how the ratios look like (or change), after (if) you re-scale 
the X-asis to have the maximum edge of RefMult_corr to be similar between two species...
The location of crossing-with-unity would change or become always below unity?  

Actually, I think it’s hard to do this which is not due to the technical issue. Because  Ru and Zr almost have same largest corrected refmult values. Let me show you some official refmult values from CME paper below :  the maximum value are same which is 469.5. Mine is also same with this. If you compare Ru and Zr corrected refmult distribution, the knee is also same. so you will also think we will get the same results if we scale the same value. This is my answer for your above request. 

1) some values in the tail 

464.5  18.3548  4.28425  3.70553  1.92498

465.5  3.365    1.83439  2.73384  1.65343

466.5  2.93027  1.7118   8.83279  2.972

467.5  3.87533  1.96858  3.545    1.88282

468.5  5.59345  2.36505  3.51814  1.87567

469.5  1.19892  1.09495  1  1

Thanks again for the detailed summary, and sorry to bother you with these E-mails several 
times, I had one more question that I’m always forgetting to ask you during your talk. Have 
you try to compare the results with RefMult2 (|eta|>0.5) or separating acceptances for the 
centrality from the measured region? Now your measurements are done within some 
overlapping eta acceptance in the mid-rapidity with centrality definition, right? This is not 
the multiplicity fluctuation, so the effect might be smaller than the net-number fluctuation 
studies, but we might like to know if there is any possible auto-correlation, which could also 
depend on the order of the cumulant), have you tried to look into this? Further studies 
including EPD could clarify more about the effect, as we see in some of Shengli’s slides 
with more eta-gap, though… 

I will show the centrality  using refmult2 (|eta|>0.5) in future since I haven’t saved this refmult2 now. but this is easy to do in future and I will definitely check this for you. Actually to check the auto-correlation, we indeed already showed the nch(|eta|<1) an epd(2.1<|eta|<5.1) as our centrality and we got the same results. (You may also agree the epd check is same as refmult2, or better than remult2).  Please find the slides 9 and 10 in my June 09 FCV presentation https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/isobar_nuclear_deformation_0608_bulkcorr_czhang.pdf

I hope I answer your questions and comments. Thank you. 

Best regards 

Chunjian 

On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:14 PM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Chunjian
Thanks again for the detailed summary, and sorry to bother you with these E-mails several
times, I had one more question that I’m always forgetting to ask you during your talk. Have
you try to compare the results with RefMult2 (|eta|>0.5) or separating acceptances for the
centrality from the measured region? Now your measurements are done within some
overlapping eta acceptance in the mid-rapidity with centrality definition, right? This is not
the multiplicity fluctuation, so the effect might be smaller than the net-number fluctuation
studies, but we might like to know if there is any possible auto-correlation, which could also
depend on the order of the cumulant), have you tried to look into this? Further studies
including EPD could clarify more about the effect, as we see in some of Shengli’s slides
with more eta-gap, though...
Best regards, ShinIchi

On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:15, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Chunjian
Thanks for the information. The plots you showed in your slides page 10 from yesterday
(still this morning for you) do look like the ratio with un-normalized ones you have in your
page 4 of this first link-file below, or? Later, you also have comparison with normalized ones,
but the definition seems to be somewhat different from the page 10 from yesterday. So
please confirm about the definitions.  

Now we agreed to show the plots just with (as a function of) RefMult_corr (= X), just for
my curiosity, I would like to see how the ratios look like (or change), after (if) you re-scale
the X-asis to have the maximum edge of RefMult_corr to be similar between two species...
The location of crossing-with-unity would change or become always below unity?  
Best regards, ShinIchi

On Sep 30, 2021, at 5:37, Chunjian Zhang <chun-jian.zhang AT stonybrook.edu> wrote:

Dear Shinlchi and Sergei,

Hello. Please find the vn-pt correlations and mean-pt fluctuations using new corrected remfult binning in https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/FCV%20request%20for%20mean%20pT%20fluctuations%20and%20vn-pT%20correlation%20in%20corrected%20refmult%20binning.pdf

Additionally, we also presented it before in the below supplemental materials:
1) Shengli Huang, FCV Feb.24 2021, Measurements of vn-pt correlation and mean pT fluctuations in Ru+Ru and Zr+Zr at 200 GeV: https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/isobar_bulk_corr_shengli_0.pdf
2) Shengli Huang, FCV Apr.07 2021, Measurements of vn-pt correlation in Ru+Ru and Zr+Zr at 200 GeV: https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/FCV0406Shengli2.pdf
3) Chunjian Zhang, FCV June 09 2021, isobar flow study related to nuclear deformation and their systematic calculations: https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/isobar_nuclear_deformation_0608_bulkcorr_czhang.pdf

Thank you for discussions and comments.

Best regards
Chunjian

On Sep 29, 2021, at 12:02 PM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Chunjian
I could not find the plots that Sergei wanted to see in our earlier presentations
in the PWG: the individual "normalized mean pt fluctuations of 2nd and 3rd order"
for each species separately first before making ratio Ru/Zr. Please point us the location,
if you have already shown us before. You might have shown for AuAu and UU only?
You were showing the correlation between vn and pT earlier, that you do not these days,
are you still looking for these quantities also in isobar as well?
Best regards, ShinIchi

On Sep 29, 2021, at 12:17, Chunjian Zhang via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Shinlchi and all,

Hello.  Please find my slides in https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/isobar_nuclear_deformation_0929_Collmeeting_czhang_v3.pdf

Thank you and best regards
Chunjian

On Sep 27, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Chunjian Zhang <chun-jian.zhang AT stonybrook.edu> wrote:

Dear Shinlchi and all,

I would like to discuss the comparison with CME draft and request preliminary plots for the upcoming DNP conference. The slides will be uploaded soon. Thank you.

Best regards
Chunjian

On Sep 27, 2021, at 7:29 AM, Niseem via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Jiangyong, Prithwish and ShinIch,

I would like to give an update on;

1) The 2-particle momentum correlations

2) QA for new 19.6 GeV Run-21 Data

Thanks,
Niseem


On 9/27/21 6:18 AM, ShinIchi Esumi via Star-fcv-l wrote:

Dear FCV PWG colleagues

We will have our weekly FCV PWG meeting on this Wednesday morning 29/Sep/2021
9:30AM in BNL (NY time zone) at our usual time and place. So if you have anything to
present, please let us know and please post your slide by Tuesday. The zoom room link,
ID and pass for the FCV PWG meeting are in our usual drupal agenda page below.
Please also keep in mind that all the preliminary plots should have already been there
in the summary area below.
Best regards, Jiangyong, Prithwish and ShinIchi

Meeting agenda page with zoom link : https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jjiastar/bulkcorr
Preliminary page : https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/pwg/bulk-correlations/bulkcorr-preliminary-summary

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Niseem Magdy Abdelrahman, Ph.D.,
Postdoctoral Research Associate
Department of Physics
University of Illinois at Chicago
2236 Science and Engineering South
845 West Taylor Street, Chicago, Illinois 60607
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