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star-fcv-l - Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 20/Sept/2023 Wed. 9:30 AM EDT

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Subject: STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG

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  • From: Sooraj Radhakrishnan <skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov>
  • To: tc88qy <tc88qy AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
  • Cc: "STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG" <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>, subhash <subhash AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
  • Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 20/Sept/2023 Wed. 9:30 AM EDT
  • Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 22:33:00 -0700

Hi Qian, 
   Yes, this should be looked into after the conference, particularly as we see differences between the pT integrated and differential results. Acceptance effect is large for all centrality and pT ranges, as can be seen for the inclusive case you show in your preliminary request. If you have a systematic bias in yield extraction this will show up as a false rho_00 signal as the yields vary by more than a factor of 2 between the costheta* bins. So it is important that this is checked. 

One thing to look at would be ratio the invariant mass fit to the data points to check for any systematic biases in the different pT bins. Also, is it possible to fit your residual background separately, excluding the signal region and then do a constrained fit for yield extraction?

Sooraj

On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 7:10 PM tc88qy <tc88qy AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
Hello Sooraj,

For the pT dependence, I don't have an answer yet.
But for the centrality bins, as I shown in the slides it has consistent
result(same page).
As you mentioned, J/psi has a huge acceptance effect, and this
acceptance effect will affect pT dependence more than the centrality
dependence due to kinetic acceptance. We agree to not show the pT
dependence in the SPIN2023. But in any way, we can revisit this after
the conference if you want.

Qian Yang

On 2023-09-23 02:36, Sooraj Radhakrishnan wrote:
> Unlike for the phi, you have a huge acceptance effect for J/Psi. So
> the signal extraction systematics can be quite significant here
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 11:18 AM Sooraj Radhakrishnan
> <skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov> wrote:
>
>> Hi Qian,
>> Thanks for following up on the questions from the PWG meeting. On
>> your S3 here, for your sum in pT case, do you have one with the same
>> pT range as the integral results? 0.3 - 6.0 GeV/c? Want to know how
>> much is the discrepancy from summing up the bins. If this is, as you
>> said, from some uncorrected bias when the statistics is low, could
>> this be a missing systematic in your yield extraction? What
>> systematic uncertainties do you take into account in yield
>> extraction and how are they propagated to rho_00?
>>
>> Sooraj
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 6:49 PM subhash via Star-fcv-l
>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Qian for clarification. This one looks fine.
>>>
>>> On 2023-09-22 06:53 AM, tc88qy wrote:
>>>> Hi Subhash
>>>>
>>>> That plots may be misleading. In side 15, the rho_00 has also be
>>>> corrected for event-plane resolution.
>>>> I update a plot with both rho_00^obs and rho_00 in this link.
>>> Please
>>>> check.
>>>>
>>>
>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Cent_0_80_pT_3_60.gif
>>>>
>>>> Qian Yang
>>>>
>>>> On 2023-09-21 23:12, subhash wrote:
>>>>> Dear Qian,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you point me to an example of such case. In your slides
>>> rho_00^obs
>>>>> and resolution corrected seems the same ie is 0.2736 ± 0.01524
>>> for
>>>>> 0-80%.
>>>>> I am looking here side 15 (left figure) and 16 (blue data
>>> point):
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/jpsiSpinAlignment_20230914.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>> Subhash
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-09-21 10:31 PM, tc88qy wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Subhash,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the event plane resolution correction has been propagated
>>> to
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> the central value of rho_00 and its errors.
>>>>>> The rho_00 shown in the slides are already corrected for
>>> event-plane
>>>>>> resolution.
>>>>>> If it is rho_00^{obs} value in plots, I will write it as
>>>>>> rho_00^{obs}.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Qian Yang
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-09-21 20:11, subhash wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Qian,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your response. I have one more comment that I
>>> think I
>>>>>>> missed during yesterday's discussion. Do you propagate errors
>>> on
>>>>>>> rho_00 when you apply event plane resolution correction. The
>>>>>>> resolution correction will amplify the deviation from 1/3,
>>> but will
>>>>>>> also enlarge your statistical error bar. Looking at the
>>> values of
>>>>>>> rho_00^obs and rho_00^resol-corrected in figures, it seems to
>>> me
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> error propagation is not considered. Am I correct, can you
>>> please
>>>>>>> confirm?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>> Subhash
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-09-21 06:09 PM, tc88qy wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Subhash
>>>>>>>> Please find my reply inline.
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Qian Yang
>>>>>>>> On 2023-09-21 17:56, subhash wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear Qian,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for this study. I have a few follow up comments:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. My understanding is "directly from data(Red)" is over a
>>> wider
>>>>>>>>> pt-range and "sum over (Magenta)" is statistical weighted
>>> average
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> rho_00 vs pt, right? If the low and high pt range is same
>>> for red
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> magenta points, eg 0.3 - 6 GeV/c, then I am fine with
>>> either
>>>>>>>>> red/magenta points to be shown.
>>>>>>>> Right, the red data came from a wider pt-range, and sum over
>>> is
>>>>>>>> statistical weighted average from rho_00 vs pt.
>>>>>>>> It is the same pT range of 0.3-6 GeV/c for both case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. On your event plane, do you have any weighting factor in
>>>>>>>>> reconstructing Q-vectors, e.g. a pt weight.
>>>>>>>> Yes, there is a pt weight
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. BTW, in your analysis do you have any opening angle
>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>>>> I am asking is that we have seen such a cut can
>>> artificially
>>>>>>>>> enhance
>>>>>>>>> the signal and one has to be careful in simulation when
>>> correcting
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> such effect.
>>>>>>>> We did not apply any opening angle selection in the
>>> analysis.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>> Subhash
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2023-09-21 02:46 PM, tc88qy via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>>>> I did some study in terms of the comments I got from
>>> yesterdays
>>>>>>>>>> fav
>>>>>>>>>> pwg meeting. Two things are request to be check.
>>>>>>>>>> One is the rho_00 consistence check of summing over rho_00
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> pT/centrality vs the rho_00 extracted directly from data.
>>>>>>>>>> The conclusion is that the centrality dependence is safe.
>>> By
>>>>>>>>>> summing
>>>>>>>>>> over in centrality, it gives a consistent results. But
>>> summing
>>>>>>>>>> over pT
>>>>>>>>>> do give some discrepancy which mainly due to 0.3-6 and 3-4
>>> GeV/c
>>>>>>>>>> range. For p_{T} dependence we may need some more to study
>>> after
>>>>>>>>>> SPIN2023.
>>>>>>>>>> The other one is the event plane resolution. In the slides
>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>>>>> |eta|< 0.5, but actually I use |eta|<1 in the analysis.
>>>>>>>>>> I listed my cuts and event plane resolution, Subhash’s
>>> result as
>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>> as STAR blind analysis's result in the slides. It is more
>>> or less
>>>>>>>>>> consistent with each other.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please look more details in this link.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/jpsiSpinAlignment_20230920.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Qian Yang
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-09-18 21:40, tc88qy via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Subhash and all
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I want to give an update on J/psi spin alignment study
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> isobar
>>>>>>>>>>> data. This update has been shown in last week's HP-PWG
>>> meeting.
>>>>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>>>> find slides in this link:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/jpsiSpinAlignment_20230914.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>> I also got some comments from HP meeting. I did some
>>> study
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> prepared few slides after HP-PWG meeting, you can find it
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> link:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/jpsiSpinAlignment_20230917.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>> If it is all ok, I want request preliminary for this
>>> study
>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>> coming SPIN2023 meeting which is next week.
>>>>>>>>>>> The preliminary request has been sent to HP mail list.
>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>> can find
>>>>>>>>>>> the slides in this link:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Preliminary_figures_request_1.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Qian Yang
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-09-18 18:26, subhash via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We shall have our weekly FCV PWG meeting this Wednesday
>>>>>>>>>>>> (20/Sept/2023)
>>>>>>>>>>>> at 9:30 AM EDT. If you would like to present please let
>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please try posting your slides by Tuesday. The agenda
>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>>> collected at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jjiastar/bulkcorr
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoom details are copied below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Prithwish, Zhenyu and Subhash
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ZOOM LINK FOR FCV MEETING:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Join ZoomGov Meeting
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://bnl.zoomgov.com/j/1612377416?pwd=V3kvcnN5ZTRLVEc4U01QWUUycDQ1UT09
>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Sooraj Radhakrishnan
>>
>> Research Scientist,
>> Department of Physics
>>
>> Kent State University
>> Kent, OH 44243
>>
>> Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
>> Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
>> MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> Ph: 510-495-2473 [3]
>>
>> Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
>
> --
>
> Sooraj Radhakrishnan
>
> Research Scientist,
> Department of Physics
>
> Kent State University
>  Kent, OH 44243
>
> Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
> Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
> MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
> Berkeley, CA 94720
> Ph: 510-495-2473 [3]
>
> Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
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> [3] tel:%28510%29%20495-2473


--
Sooraj Radhakrishnan
Research Scientist,
Department of Physics
Kent State University
Kent, OH 44243

Physicist Postdoctoral Affiliate
Nuclear Science Division
Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
Berkeley, CA 94720
Ph: 510-495-2473



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