Star-fst-l mailing list

[Zhenyu Ye <yezhenyu2003 AT gmail.com>]

In 2015, 0.7% per day

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> On Jun 1, 2021, at 12:06 PM, Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu> wrote:
> 
> hi Xu, Zhenyu,
>    So, the natural question is what was the historical leak rate per day 
> for the installed IST during the runs?
>    Thanks, sincerely,
> 
>      Gerard
> 
> 
> From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Hu, Yu 
> <yuhu AT bnl.gov>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 12:50 PM
> To: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
> Cc: L Star-fst <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>  
> Dear All, 
> 
> Please find our latest plot for the cooling system leaking test.
> We see a 2% drop yesterday. From the previous study, we know the readout 
> level is always dropping with 2% steps.
> So now we know the leaking rate is <1% per day with the current setup, 
> which is pretty good.
> 
> We disassembled the current connection this morning and will move on to the 
> next test today. The details we will update later.
> 
> Thank you.
> Best,
> Yu
> 
> From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Hu, Yu 
> <yuhu AT bnl.gov>
> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 17:04
> To: Wilks, Gavin M <gwilks3 AT uic.edu>; Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
> Cc: L Star-fst <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>  
> Dear All, 
> 
> I wanted to give you an update on the cooling test we have been doing since 
> yesterday. 
> Good news: the level does not drop significantly. Please see the attached 
> plots.
> 
> You can also look at the spread sheet data on the reservoir level and other 
> parameters that we update from time to time at this link: 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YtVH0TTUuLM18Zi_a6GpCHE3j6jIMv7i1QiYb2bh_hg/edit?usp=sharing__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!R0xzP8xSyMiIrHc-8ZaTKr4uxZSkegOutpUSrYzMkjEB73KIwiXv5M5qWEV4k0czcPqJBD0$
>  
> 
> Please let us know if you have any questions. 
> 
> Thank you.
> Yu
> From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Gavin 
> Wilks <gwilks3 AT uic.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 18:59
> To: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
> Cc: L Star-fst <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>  
> Hello All,
> 
> I would like to provide an update on the cooling tube status.
> 
> After sub-optimal outcomes with the hard and soft tubes, Rahul and Bob were 
> recommended Tygon 2001 plasticizer-free tubing used in PHENIX. Some spare 
> tubing from PHENIX was tested overnight with compressed air at ~61 psi. 
> There was no leakage detected with the soap bubble testing at the tube 
> connection points, but the pressure did drop overnight to ~47 psi. It was 
> discovered that the tubing had expanded from the high air pressure. The 
> tubing is currently being tested with NOVEC at ~25 psi using 12 dummy FST 
> modules with a total of 48 tube connection points (see photos attached). 
> There will be 96 total connection points for the full FST setup.
> 
> There are varying types/sizes of clamps being used for the current test due 
> to limited availability (see photos attached). The proper sized clamps need 
> to be identified for the two different sized cooling tube barbs. 
> 
> We will remotely monitor the status of the cooling system until Tuesday and 
> physically inspect the system once per day.
> 
> Photos: 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11NNO-CgbmrIxefFT0V41LcunRWVSKGmV?usp=sharing__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!R0xzP8xSyMiIrHc-8ZaTKr4uxZSkegOutpUSrYzMkjEB73KIwiXv5M5qWEV4k0czgDcE6cY$
>  
> 
> Best,
> Gavin
> 
>> On May 28, 2021, at 17:10, Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Christian,
>> 
>> I believe we only use one type of clamp to do the test. I am not sure how 
>> other clamp will behave.
>> But Rahul and Bob did the test with multiple set of hose and they all show 
>> the similar leak.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Xu
>> 
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:45 PM Videbaek, Christian <cvidebaek AT bnl.gov> 
>> wrote:
>> Hi Xu,
>> 
>> In the video it looks like the leaking part of the tube is below the screw 
>> part of the hose clamp.
>> Is this the case for any other connectors on the test setup?
>> If so, do any of the other hose clamps 
>> (https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/videbaks/fst-installation)  show 
>> the same problem?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Christian
>> From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Yi Yang 
>> <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 8:54 PM
>> To: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
>> Cc: L Star-fst <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>>  
>> Hi Xu,
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for the explanation and yes I saw the nice video and picture. 
>> 
>> It is very interesting and strange, it looks to me that it is the problem 
>> of the tube itself, not related to how we clamp them, is it right?
>> 
>> Have you contacted the company to ask about this strange issue? In my 
>> opinion, t (leaking between the two layers of soft tube) is not right for 
>> any hose. 
>> 
>> Could you please also remind me that these softer tubes in the video are 
>> irradiated ones or the new ones? Thanks a lot.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Yi
>> 
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Yi Yang, Associate Professor 
>> Department of Physics 
>> National Cheng Kung University 
>> Tainan, 701 Taiwan 
>> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw 
>> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237 
>> Fax: +886-6-2747995
>> Group Web: 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/*yiyang__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!R0xzP8xSyMiIrHc-8ZaTKr4uxZSkegOutpUSrYzMkjEB73KIwiXv5M5qWEV4k0cz1kKOREw$
>>   
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 6:51 AM Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Yi,
>> 
>> We did not try the Teflon tape since Rahul had some concerns. I couldn't 
>> recall the exact concern from Rahul, but will let you know once I figure 
>> it out.
>> 
>> For the leaking, it is actually between the two layers of soft tube, not 
>> between the soft tube and stainless steel tube.
>> Please find the details in the following link: 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1C6eSbNqVj1qaO5SXHc-sCi1dlO3qNIU1?usp=sharing__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!R0xzP8xSyMiIrHc-8ZaTKr4uxZSkegOutpUSrYzMkjEB73KIwiXv5M5qWEV4k0czPxtZvfk$
>>  
>> It seems like a general issue of the soft tube (even though we didn't test 
>> every tube with soap).
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Xu
>> 
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 6:17 PM Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw> wrote:
>> Hi Xu, and all,
>> 
>> Thanks a lot.
>> 
>> I am wondering if you guys tried to wrap some Teflon tape in the pink 
>> region before putting the tube on (this is what I mentioned in the other 
>> email). It might be worth to try (?).
>> 
>> Also, (probably you talked about this during the meeting already) could 
>> you please tell me if this leaking issue is general for all tubes or just 
>> for some particular ones? Thanks a lot.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Yi
>> 
>> Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>於 2021年5月28日 週五，上午5:46寫道：
>> Hi Gerard,
>> 
>> Thanks for the picture. Maybe Rahul/Bob is a better person to comment on 
>> this.
>> 
>> But as far as I learnt from Rahul, in the pink region, there is nothing to 
>> clamp on. A flat surface with clamp will not create a sealing surface to 
>> stop the leak.
>> For the blue region, the only barb is also not perfect for sealing. That's 
>> why we have to find a second place to put clamps on. And the red region is 
>> the only possible place.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Xu
>> 
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 5:34 PM Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu> wrote:
>> Don't you think the "barb" is meant to have an tubing with ID which is a 
>> _close_ fit over the region I marked in pink here, and have clamp(s) over 
>> the region I marked in blue?
>> 
>> <Untitled2.png>
>> 
>> Riding up over the region I marked in red looks like a recipe for leaking,
>> 
>> 
>> But, like I said, it is hard to judge from afar and I certainly must defer 
>> to you guys. I don't want to generate a big long discussion if it doesn't 
>> help anyways.
>> 
>> And yeah this "barb" is kind of unusual in design and I can believe it may 
>> be hard to deal with.
>> 
>> I am sure you guys will converge on the proper solution.
>> 
>>      - Gerard
>> 
>> 
>> From: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 5:15 PM
>> To: Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
>> Cc: L Star-fst <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>>  
>> Hi Gerard,
>> 
>> > By the way, all this cooling business is not my worry but in these 
>> > pictures including the latest it _appears_ that the tubing is inserted 
>> > too far over the "hose barb" on module.
>> This is because that "hose barb" is the only place we could put clamps on 
>> except the barb in the front of the stainless steel tube.
>> There is no other place on the cooling tube that can be clamped on and 
>> crates a good sealing. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Xu
>> 
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 5:08 PM Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu> wrote:
>> Maybe. I don't know, not a judgement I can make. It sounds better to use a 
>> novec-resistant tubing.
>> 
>> By the way, all this cooling business is not my worry but in these 
>> pictures including the latest it _appears_ that the tubing is inserted too 
>> far over the "hose barb" on module. I don't understand why it would be 
>> done like that and it looks wrong to me, But it is hard to really judge 
>> from afar.
>> 
>>      Gerard
>> 
>> 
>> From: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 5:03 PM
>> To: Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
>> Cc: L Star-fst <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>>  
>> Hi Gerard,
>> 
>> That's a good question, but I don't have any answer right now.
>> We will need to see how the test goes and also need input from Rahul and 
>> Bob.
>> But it was used in PHENIX for some time, maybe it's fine?
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Xu
>> 
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 4:57 PM Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu> wrote:
>> hi Xu,
>>    In such case, don't we have to worry about the resulting contamination 
>> "plating out" elsewhere in the system and causing trouble?
>> 
>>     Gerard
>> 
>> 
>> From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Xu Sun 
>> <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 4:51 PM
>> To: videbaek <videbaek AT bnl.gov>
>> Cc: Star-fst L <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] FST cooling tube leak : We might have a solution
>>  
>> Hi Flemming,
>> 
>> Bob and Rahul told us the novec will eat up the materials and the leaking 
>> rate will increase with time.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Xu
>> 
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 4:48 PM videbaek <videbaek AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Did Rob indicate the rationale for exchange every year. Possible Rad 
>> damage ?
>> It would be good to know.
>> 
>> best F.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2021-05-27 16:37, Zhenyu Ye wrote:
>> > This is good news, indeed.
>> > 
>> > If it works, it would solve our problem for the upcoming Run.
>> > But it also brings a new potential issue, that we need to replace the
>> > cooling tubes every year.
>> > If we can avoid it, it will be the best.
>> > 
>> > Zhenyu
>> > 
>> >> On May 27, 2021, at 2:33 PM, Tribedy, Prithwish <ptribedy AT bnl.gov> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Hello everyone,
>> >> We have good news to share with you. With a new kind of tube that was 
>> >> previously used by Phenix, we might have a solution to our leak 
>> >> problem. We need to do more tests, but I think this is a good 
>> >> progress.
>> >> 
>> >> Remember we had the following issues:
>> >>      • The hard tubes were very stiff, bending radius was large but had 
>> >> less leak.
>> >>      • The soft tubes had major leaks between layers.
>> >> A solution came after Bob/Rahul contacted Robert Pisani from Phenix. 
>> >> From them we got this third type: Tygon 2001 plasticizer free" tubes.
>> >> 
>> >> With our pressurized air setup, we see NO LEAKS. No more bubbles with 
>> >> soap.
>> >> 
>> >> Also, it's much cheaper. It costs like $2.5 c per ft (compared to 
>> >> $20-80 for the previous soft tube we were using).
>> >> According to PHENIX experts, they should be replaced once every year 
>> >> -- I think that is feasible.
>> >> 
>> >> So, we'll get 25 ft of these tubes tomorrow and this way we have the 
>> >> full weekend to do the testing.
>> >> If things look good in next couple of days and no leaks are found‚ WE 
>> >> MIGHT HAVE A SOLUTION.
>> >> 
>> >> We will keep you updated.
>> >> Best,
>> >> Yu, Xu and Prithwish
>> _______________________________________________
>> Star-fst-l mailing list
>> Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
>> -- 
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Yi Yang, Associate Professor 
>> Department of Physics 
>> National Cheng Kung University 
>> Tainan, 701 Taiwan 
>> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw 
>> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237 
>> Fax: +886-6-2747995
>> Group Web: 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/*yiyang__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!R0xzP8xSyMiIrHc-8ZaTKr4uxZSkegOutpUSrYzMkjEB73KIwiXv5M5qWEV4k0cz1kKOREw$
>>   
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> _______________________________________________
>> Star-fst-l mailing list
>> Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
> 
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