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Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11
- From: Zhenyu Ye <yezhenyu2003 AT gmail.com>
- To: Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov>
- Cc: Star-fst L <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
- Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11
- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:52:52 -0500
> On Aug 18, 2021, at 8:47 AM, Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>
> okay, to be 100% clear there is now way we can bring the detector back to
> the clean room.
Yes, fully agree. It is too risky.
> To extract the detector to add some grounding wire if this is done very
> careful,
Will double check with Rahul and Bob Soja.
> is fine. But please make sure to integrate Rahul and Bob in the process,
They are the persons who will perform these operations (pulling detector out
and pushing it in again).
Zhenyu
> of course this impacts our sTGC installation if Rahul and Bob need to ficus
> on this now.
>
> Cheers elke
>
>
>> On Aug 18, 2021, at 09:26, Zhenyu Ye <yezhenyu2003 AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would not bring detector back to clean room. It involves operations
>> which in my view too risky for reducing the noise on the outer sections of
>> two modules.
>>
>> On the contrary, if pulling out the detector and adding grounding wires is
>> low risk, I think it is worth doing it.
>>
>> Xu and I have discussed the tests with detector at various poisons 1.
>> Fully in 2. Half In (out) 3. Fully out.
>>
>> Zhenyu
>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I don't know what to say exactly.
>>> If pulling it is low risk I think a test again in out position with as
>>> much darkness as possible, followed by some grounding maybe-improvements
>>> and test again, is good to do.
>>> The noise seems more than a little high so you may be looking at a choice
>>> between going back to cleanroom vs. having no useful tracking from the
>>> modules involved. That could be a painful choice, I don't have any info
>>> to judge it. At least these two modules are not in a line, right? (Both
>>> on inner disk.) Is it good enough to have tracking only from the 2nd &
>>> 3rd disks on these sectors?
>>>
>>> Gerard
>>>
>>>
>>> p.s. If you guys want to have a brief meeting on this matter, I'm
>>> available.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 9:11 AM
>>> To: Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
>>> Cc: Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov>; Star-fst L
>>> <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7
>>> and 11
>>>
>>> Hi Gerard,
>>>
>>> If we could change the purple cable that would be great, but right now it
>>> is not possible to do so unless we took the half FST back to the clean
>>> room, which we don't want.
>>> And if I understand correctly, putting the grounding between the T-board
>>> and aluminum ring is the only operation we are going to do.
>>> If the grounding wire didn't fix it, then we have to leave it and see if
>>> we could optimise the noise from the software side.
>>>
>>> I am still on hold now, let me know if I should proceed to pull the FST
>>> out.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Xu
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 9:04 AM Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> I am guessing from afar of course but my guess is there is a connection
>>> failure somehow relating to the T-board.
>>>
>>> However Xu wants to first add some further ground connections between
>>> T-board and ring, of course this will be nice if it resolves the issue
>>> but I'm not too hopeful on that.
>>>
>>> Gerard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Aschenauer Elke-Caroline
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 8:57 AM
>>> To: Xu Sun
>>> Cc: Aschenauer Elke-Caroline; Visser, Gerard; Star-fst L
>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7
>>> and 11
>>>
>>> I ask again, what do you think is causing the noise at the detector and
>>> you can fix moving the detector out.
>>>
>>> Cheers elke
>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 2021, at 08:55, Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gerard & all,
>>>>
>>>>> I think that they have already swapped cables to rule out PPB or
>>>>> readout system as an issue.
>>>> Yes, we swapped the purple cable to another PPB and RO chain and the
>>>> issue moved with purple cable.
>>>>
>>>>> That also (right??) rules out the bias power supply as an issue.
>>>> Yes, we also switched the HV cable on ISEG module with a working
>>>> channel/cable and the issue stays the same.
>>>>
>>>> It seems complicated to take the FST out but Rahul and Bob thinks it is
>>>> doable as far as I understand.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Xu
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 8:52 AM Visser, Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> hi Elke & all,
>>>> I think that they have already swapped cables to rule out PPB or
>>>> readout system as an issue.
>>>> That also (right??) rules out the bias power supply as an issue.
>>>> It seems to me that to pull it out is necessary to investigate
>>>> further. Isn't pulling it out a low risk operation? If it is not low
>>>> risk then yeah one could decide to just leave this and hope for
>>>> something to get better on its own or else live with the high noise
>>>> level.
>>>>
>>>> Gerard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of
>>>> Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 8:48 AM
>>>> To: Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: Star-fst L <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position
>>>> 7 and 11
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> are we sure that pulling out the detector is the right way to go.
>>>> I would like to see noise tests as function of HV to see if we see this
>>>> noise turning on at a certain HV.
>>>> Also what things have you all swapped to understand where the noise
>>>> comes from.
>>>> What is the working assumption which means you think you need to pull
>>>> out the detector.
>>>>
>>>> I really think we need to think this a bit more through.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers elke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 18, 2021, at 08:28, Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tonko,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. Please go ahead and let me know when you are finished.
>>>>> On my way to STAR, we could start to pull the detector after you are
>>>>> done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Xu
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 8:15 AM Tonko Ljubicic <tonko AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Xu, all,
>>>>>
>>>>> before you pull the detector out today I would like 15-20 minutes to
>>>>> take a run
>>>>> regardless of noise. This will give me some data to ponder while you
>>>>> are checking the noise sources.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would that be possible? Now?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Tonko
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 1:37 AM Xu Sun <sunxuhit AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Flemming,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The bias voltage is different in two tests.
>>>>>> For the test on 08/11/2021, the bias voltage is 50V for both inner and
>>>>>> outer. This is because the detector is only half way in and we
>>>>>> couldn't block the light.
>>>>>> For the test on 08/17/2021, the bias voltage is 140V for inner and
>>>>>> 160V for outer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Xu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 7:34 PM videbaek <videbaek AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Xu,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a question were the bias voltage the same in the two tests or did you
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to 140 for the outer. Just want to make sure I understand what you
>>>>>>> did.
>>>>>>> I am coming in to the lab tomorrow as already planned and will see you
>>>>>>> in the hall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> flemming
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2021-08-17 19:11, Xu Sun wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We ramped the whole FST detector to the working HV last night and did
>>>>>>>> a readout test for all the modules.
>>>>>>>> There are two modules located at Disk 1 position 7 and Disk 1
>>>>>>>> position
>>>>>>>> 11 (all belong to RDO2) showing an abnormal noise than the previous
>>>>>>>> test. The RO test results can be found in the attached file
>>>>>>>> (RDO2_140V_08172021.png).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both modules 1-7 and 1-11 were tested with 50V while the FST was half
>>>>>>>> way in the cone on 08/11/2021. The results then were quite normal and
>>>>>>>> could be found in the attached file (RDO2_50V_08112021.png).
>>>>>>>> The only difference between two tests, as far as we are aware, is the
>>>>>>>> position of the detector: on 08/11/2021 detector was half way in the
>>>>>>>> cone and on 08/17/2021 detector was at final position.
>>>>>>>> We have made sure the issue is on the purple cable and module side by
>>>>>>>> swapping connections through the readout chain.
>>>>>>>> Similar problems were found in the clean room RO test and were fixed
>>>>>>>> by adding grounding to the aluminum ring or replacing the purple
>>>>>>>> cable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We plan to pull the FST out tomorrow morning and check what happened.
>>>>>>>> We also plan to add additional grounding of 1-7 and 1-11 to the
>>>>>>>> aluminum ring instead of only grounding to the T-board since it is
>>>>>>>> almost impossible to change the purple cable for Disk 1 (most inner
>>>>>>>> disk) on the scaffolding.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Xu
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Star-fst-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Flemming Videbaek
>>>>>>> senior scientist
>>>>>>> videbaek @ bnl.gov
>>>>>>> Brookhaven National Lab
>>>>>>> Physics Department
>>>>>>> Bldg 510D
>>>>>>> Upton, NY 11973
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> phone: 631-344-4106
>>>>>>> cell : 631-681-1596
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> ) `\ +
>>>> / '. | Elke-Caroline Aschenauer (she/her/hers) =
>>>> | `, -
>>>> \,_ `-/ Brookhaven National Lab +
>>>> ,&&&&&V Physics Dept., 25 Corona Road =
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>>>> =
>>>> \_ | |—‘
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>>>> +
>>>>
>>>> +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Note: Please do not feel obligated to respond to this message outside of
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>>> ) `\ +
>>> / '. | Elke-Caroline Aschenauer (she/her/hers) =
>>> | `, -
>>> \,_ `-/ Brookhaven National Lab +
>>> ,&&&&&V Physics Dept., 25 Corona Road =
>>> ,&&&&&&&&: Bldg. 510 /2-195 Rocky Point, NY, -
>>> ,&&&&&&&&&&; 20 Pennsylvania Avenue 11778 +
>>> | |&&&&&&&;\ Upton, NY 11973 =
>>> | | :_) _ Tel.: 001-631-344-4769 Tel.: +1-631-569-4290 -
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>>> +
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>
> Note: Please do not feel obligated to respond to this message outside of
> your work hours.
>
> ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-
> ) `\ +
> / '. | Elke-Caroline Aschenauer (she/her/hers) =
> | `, -
> \,_ `-/ Brookhaven National Lab +
> ,&&&&&V Physics Dept., 25 Corona Road =
> ,&&&&&&&&: Bldg. 510 /2-195 Rocky Point, NY, -
> ,&&&&&&&&&&; 20 Pennsylvania Avenue 11778 +
> | |&&&&&&&;\ Upton, NY 11973 =
> | | :_) _ Tel.: 001-631-344-4769 Tel.: +1-631-569-4290 -
> | | ;--' | Cell-USA: +1-757-2565224 +
> '--' `-.--. | Cell-Europe: +49152220025211 =
> \_ | |—‘ -
> `-._\__/ Mail: elke AT bnl.gov elke.caroline AT me.com +
>
> +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11
, (continued)
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Visser, Gerard, 08/18/2021
- Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11, Xu Sun, 08/18/2021
- Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11, Aschenauer Elke-Caroline, 08/18/2021
- Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11, Xu Sun, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Visser, Gerard, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Xu Sun, 08/18/2021
- Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11, Zhenyu Ye, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Visser, Gerard, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Zhenyu Ye, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Aschenauer Elke-Caroline, 08/18/2021
- Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11, Zhenyu Ye, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Aschenauer Elke-Caroline, 08/18/2021
-
Re: [Star-fst-l] High Noise Shown in Module at Disk 1 position 7 and 11,
Zhenyu Ye, 08/18/2021
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