Star-fst-l mailing list

["Tribedy, Prithwish" <ptribedy AT bnl.gov>]

Hello everyone,

Here are some updates to keep you all in the loop. We did some check. We have two drums for NOVEC, one opened and the other unopened (see the attached picture). 

The unopened drum has 55 gal intact. We didn’t touch it. We have 1/3 of the liquid left in the opened drum. Which means we have roughly 18 gal. We know that the leaking rate of FST unit is 0.4 gal/week.  Which means we can use this for 45 weeks. Remember, Run 22 is only 20-cryo weeks (16 weeks of pp run).  

So, we think we should not throw this opened drum and go ahead with the inspection. Our plan is to discuss the next step with the 3M people.  

Zhenyu has suggested to go ahead and below is also a suggestion from Gerard. 

Hi Prithwish,

   I think that makes sense, at least a basic test for moisture contamination.

   I could imagine a primitive functional test we can do ourselves as follows: Take two pieces of copper tape and a clean piece of G10. Cut rounded corners on the ends of copper tape. Tape them down with a gap of perhaps 0.1" (i am guessing at a good gap). Solder some wires, hook it up to a standard NIM wire chamber power supply, I think you might apply 5 kV (again a guess) over such a gap without breakdown. Read the leakage current from PS, watch it a bit. Take 1/4 cup of your NOVEC and pour it over the energized copper tape test setup, of course carefully. If it trips or you see breakdown -- assuming that it was not the case that the tape came off and physically moved -- then that is a problem. I guess we expect pure NOVEC to not cause any problems.

   I don't think we ever did such a direct practical test of what it would be like if NOVEC leaked on the IFC, but I guess such a test would work.

    Of course paying someone to assay the moisture contamination instead is another way.

       Gerard

Best,

Prithwish

Prithwish Tribedy

Physics Department, Brookhaven National Laboratory

Upton, NY 11973, USA

Phone: 631-344-8904, 631-344-3853

E-mail: ptribedy AT bnl.gov

---

From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Sun, Xu <xusun87 AT uic.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 8:40 AM
To: Star-fst L <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
Cc: Sun, Xu <xusun87 AT uic.edu>
Subject: [Star-fst-l] Fwd: NOVEC 7200

 

Hi All,

Please find the email exchange between Prithwish and 3M expert below.

Best,

Xu

Begin forwarded message:

From: Karl Manske <kjmanske AT mmm.com>

Subject: RE: Re: NOVEC 7200

Date: September 3, 2021 at 2:32:33 PM CDT

To: Prithwish Tribedy <ptribedy AT icloud.com>, Philip Brockelman <psbrockelman AT mmm.com>, Thomas Brodbeck <tjbrodbeck AT mmm.com>

Cc: "Hu, Yu" <yuhu AT bnl.gov>, "Sharma, Rahul" <rsharma AT bnl.gov>, "Sun, Xu" <xusun87 AT uic.edu>, Larry Stang <lstang AT mmm.com>

Hello Prithwish,

 

It is very likely that the fluid may still be suitable for your use.

 

The fluid in the unopened drum is likely in the best shape. The previously opened drum may also be okay, but as Rahul suggests, there are several factors that could have effected the fluid. 

 

In terms of what testing is appropriate, I’ll ask first, what are the key properties of the fluid that are most important to your application? What temperatures is the fluid used at? If used below 0 C, it maybe first most important to test for water in the fluid. This is most effectively measured through Karl Fischer titration.

 

Purity of the fluid is best measured by Gas Chromatography. This allows for detection of any impurities that could affect the use of the fluid.

 

Let me know how that sounds and if you have any further questions.

 

 

Karl Manske | Application Engineering Specialist
3M Electronics Materials Solutions Division
3M Center, 236-2B-01 | St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 | United States
Office: +1 651 736 7992
kjmanske AT mmm.com

 

 

 

From: Prithwish Tribedy <ptribedy AT icloud.com> 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2021 1:50 PM
To: Karl Manske <kjmanske AT mmm.com>; Philip Brockelman <psbrockelman AT mmm.com>; Thomas Brodbeck <tjbrodbeck AT mmm.com>
Cc: Hu, Yu <yuhu AT bnl.gov>; Sharma, Rahul <rsharma AT bnl.gov>; Sun, Xu <xusun87 AT uic.edu>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: NOVEC 7200

 

Dear Karl (cc Philip and Thomas),

  We would like to bring up this thread that we started a while ago. We are part of the Forward Silicon Tracker (FST) team from STAR. Our detector was installed a few weeks ago at STAR as a part of the forward upgrade program. 

 

We use NOVEC 7200 as a coolant for our detector and we’re running low on this expensive liquid. Can you please help us with the following query from our chief engineer (Rahul): 

 

There are two large barrels that have been in our stock from past 5-6 years and I’d like to use them. One of them is unopened and one of them was opened. I’m not sure of where they were stored (and how good the climate control was in the warehouse) in past 6 years and whether that matters at all for the fluid’s usability or not? I checked the datasheet and it says that anything over 2 years should be re inspected before use. Is there any procedure we should follow for the inspection?

 

Thanks and regards,

Best,

Prithwish

 

 

Prithwish Tribedy

Physics Department, Brookhaven National Laboratory
Upton, NY 11973, USA
Phone: +1 631-344-8904, 631-344-3853

Fax: +1 631-344-4206
E-mail: ptribedy AT icloud.com

 

 

 

On Aug 29, 2021, at 11:52 PM, Hu, Yu <yuhu AT bnl.gov> wrote:

 

FYI.

 

---

From: Sharma, Rahul <rsharma AT bnl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 11:00
To: Hu, Yu <yuhu AT bnl.gov>
Subject: Fwd: NOVEC 7200

 

 

 

Get Outlook for iOS

---

From: Philip Brockelman <psbrockelman AT mmm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 3:06:47 PM
To: Karl Manske <kjmanske AT mmm.com>
Cc: Thomas Brodbeck <tjbrodbeck AT mmm.com>; Sharma, Rahul <rsharma AT bnl.gov>
Subject: FW: NOVEC 7200

 

Hi Karl,

 

Would you be able to assist Rahul with his Novec 7200 questions please?

 

Thanks as always.

 

All the best,

Phil

 

 

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Phil Brockelman | Sr. Executive Sales Account - Northeast

3M Electronics Materials Solutions Division

3M , 103 Woodbridge Rd, York ME  03909 | United States

Mobile:  207-994-9078

psbrockelman AT mmm.com || www.3m.com/Novec

 

 

 

From: Sharma, Rahul <rsharma AT bnl.gov> 
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 3:03 PM
To: Philip Brockelman <psbrockelman AT mmm.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] NOVEC 7200

 

 

Hey Phil,

 

This is Rahul Sharma from BNL. You texted me earlier. So we use a lot of NOVEC 7200 engineered fluid for our experiments. For your information, we are using this as a cooling fluid to cool our electronics. The desirable properties of NOVEC are that it evaporates quickly in case of a leak and also it does not conduct electricity. There are two large barrels that have been in our stock from past 5-6 years and I’d like to use them. One of them is unopened and one of them was opened. I’m not sure of where they were stored (and how good the climate control was in the warehouse) in past 6 years and whether that matters at all for the fluid’s usability or not? I checked the datasheet and it says that anything over 2 years should be re inspected before use. Is there any procedure we should follow for the inspection?

 

• Rahul

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