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Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week
- From: Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
- To: Youqi Song <youqi.song AT yale.edu>
- Cc: STAR HardProbes PWG <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
- Subject: Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week
- Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2022 18:49:01 +0530
Hi Youqi,
Yes, it is ok from my side.
And thank you for creating this link.
I have entered your preliminary results in this link:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/pwg/jet-correlations/jetcorr-pwg-preliminary-plots
Cheers
Nihar
On 2022-10-02 00:31, Youqi Song wrote:
Hi Nihar,
I assume these plots are approved now? I created a post just with the
plots:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/youqi/Multidimensional-jet-substructure-measurement-unfolded-machine-learning-method-200-GeV-pp
, so you could link them to the list of preliminary plots from HP PWG.
Thanks!
Best,
Youqi
On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 12:54 PM Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
wrote:
Hi Youqi,https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/prelim_request_092822.pdf
Please find my replies inline.
On 2022-09-28 20:41, Youqi Song wrote:
Hi Nihar,
To implement -4% efficiency, we looped over each track in the
embedding files and generated a random number from a uniform
distribution from 0 to 1, and if the random number is greater than
0.96, we dropped that track when clustering jets.
Interesting, let's discuss this after HQ conference. For STAR
preliminary, it is Ok what you have.
Please remind us these topics in your next presentations.
and 20
I lowered the y-axis limit and updated the figures on slides 19
here:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/prelim_request_092622.pdf
All your plots look great.
long
They haven't announced the timetable yet, so we are not sure how
the talks need to be, but I can try to get a draft done by the endof
the week.Ok.
Cheers
Nihar
<nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
Best,
Youqi
On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 2:11 AM Nihar Sahoo
wrote:
Hi Youqi,
Please find my remaining question and comments inline.
On 2022-09-26 21:52, Youqi Song wrote:
Hi Nihar,
Thanks for the comments. Here are the updated slides
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/prelim_request_092522.pdfinformcan't
Yes, we can discuss the issue with smearing response after HQ.
As for the tracking uncertainty, it might be difficult to try
increasing it by 4%, since we are using official embedding and
add tracks back.Not sure, if I understand your procedure correctly, can you
whathow
do you implement then -4% in embedding?
The ratio plot shown is MultiFold/RooUnfold, so I'm not sure
Butelse
I can label the y-axis to be. Maybe it's more clear now that I
combined the ratio plot with the main plot of fig 1 in slide 15.
Ok, I understand now, I was thinking about the uncertainty band.
it
is ok.and your plot looks nice now on slide#15.
Can you please also lower y- axis for plots in slide#20 like in
slide15?
Looking forward to seeing your HQ presentation draft.
Cheers
Nihar
<nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
Best,
Youqi
On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 8:05 AM Nihar Sahoo
wrote:
Hello Youqi,
Please find my reply and queries inline.
On 2022-09-25 23:02, Youqi Song wrote:
Hi Nihar,
Thanks for the feedback. I updated the slides here:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/prelim_request_092222_0.pdf.thedid
Response to unnumbered comments:
Yes, I have three MCs, Herwig, Pythia8 and Pythia6, but what I
withearlier was just to use Pythia6 for the *misses*, I still didplots I
unfolding with each of the different MC prior shapes. (Now the
updated on Friday have both the misses and the unfolded parts
different priors). I plotted the fully corrected distributionswith
the different priors together with other sources of sysuncertainty in
backup slide 1, and I just added a backup slide 2 with just
atbreakdown.distributions due to prior shape variation.
Ok, that's fine.
Ok, I've added a slide after slide 15 to show the error
I like this comparison plot that is in Slide#16. It looks like
the(likethis
stage both Multifold and RooUnfold give roughly the same
uncertainties.
But we need to go through some other systematic uncertainties
you
mentioned below) in future after HQ conf.
For detector and generator level pT shape smearing, I think
discussion.idea
is to add some smearing to the response matrix itself. Maybeothers
can correct me if I'm wrong.Not sure if I understand this correctly, this needs a
triedhaveCould
you please bring this topic up in your next presentation?
But for HQ, I think it is Ok, the systematic uncertainties you
datafor
STAR preliminary.
Response to numbered comments:
1. For the detector response systematics, there are hadronic
correction, tower scale and tracking efficiency variation.
For hadronic correction, I see how it makes sense to vary in
as
well, but I learned that Raghav and Isaac didn't vary data fortheir
analyses, so I decided to go with how they did it. Also, I
thevarying data as well, but it didn't have a large effect. See
confirm.Geantcomparison plot I added in slide 12.
Good that you checked this for Hadronic correction.
For tower scale and tracking efficiency, I am not sure how wewould
vary data. Right now I decreased the tracking efficiency in
theby
4%, and kept data the same. Do you mean that we should drop 4%tracks
in data for this variation as well?
No, we don't change anything in the data. We can only change in
alsotracking efficiency from embedding.
You mentioned that you only decreased 4%. Have you considered
increasing 4% in your systematic uncertainties ? Just to
that
2. Great, I updated the figure in the slide.
Good, Can you please lower your y-axis scale (say -0.01) so
byall
the
markers can be seen properly, particularly at large M region?
(in a plot, all data points should be presented/shown clearly)
3. The star markers are MultiFold mass distributions divided
withRooUnfold mass, so I'm not sure why we want a different stylemarker?
Suggesting because ratio star marker no need to be the same
asMultifold marker style. just for cosmetic.
The error bands are my unfolding systematics and RooUnfoldunfolding
systematics added in quadrature, and then divided by RooUnfoldmass
distribution.
Can you please label your Y-axis accordingly without labeling
your"Ratio
with RooUnfold"?
It is not clear what you have written above. Is not it?
Please put pT range, "STAR Preliminary", and other info like
sureslide#19.
4. Great, agreed :)
5. I updated the legend to include "Detroit tune". I'm not
thatwe
want to push for the q vs g separation physics message. MaybeHelen
and Raghav can say more about this, but my understanding is
atthe
quark and gluon jets can have similar fragmentation patterns
updatedcall200
GeV and there can be ambiguity regarding e.g. if you want to
jet,a
jet initiated from g->qqbar splitting a quark jet or a gluon
so
instead it might be more interesting to treat the jets withdifferent
M and Q as having different fragmentation patterns.Ok, that makes sense to me.
Cheers
Nihar
Best,<nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
Youqi
On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 8:23 AM Nihar Sahoo
wrote:
Hello Youqi,
Thank you for your update and this information.
I have the following comment and questions on your new
whenmultifoldresults
(plots) and also your notes.
Regarding systematics,
- You might have noticed that the systematic errors for
have
gone up by a bit. This is because I realized that before,
massdoing
herwig and pythia8 shape variations, I was using pythia6
Pythia8,missesdistribution for the misses. Now I changed it so that the
ofcontribution
for prior shape variation is also weighted by the mass ratio
herwig
(pythia8) over pythia6.
Good that you found out this.
If I understand correctly, you have three MCs: Herwig,
forand
massPythia6. You used each of these MC mass distributions for the
shape
variation for sys uncertainties. Earlier, you used Pythia6
sizeseeall
shapes.these
cases, but now you corrected it with their respective mass
distributionIs
that correct?
Could you show (include in your backup) us those mass
variations using these three different MC priors? Curious to
systematicsthe
distribution.
difference due to different fragmentations in the mass
- After talking with Isaac, I learned that unfolding
weredue to
variation of iteration number and variation of prior shape
thesetreated
as correlated in previous analyses, while I originally had
overalltakingadded
in quadrature. Now I also treat them as correlated by just
the
largest contribution to the unfolding systematic as the
unfolding systematic, and add it in quadrature with detector
systematics.
Could you please separate out I) statistical uncertainty, II)
Correlated
Sys, and III) Uncorrelated Sys in your plot ( using Style2 in
slide#16)
without adding in quadrature? Please use a smaller marker
thatto
missingsee
the stat. Error bar (even if it is small).
- Regarding the question whether there's anything still
that's
raised during the meeting yesterday, I forgot to mention
didwe
smearing.haven't included detector and generator level pT shape
This
is included in Raghav's and Isaac's analyses because they
for1D
reweighting, but we are not sure if it should be included
templetcreateefficiencymultidimensional unfolding.
Hmm, Is not it that the total detector effects (tracking
and
pT smearing) are considered using this multifold while you
something like the response matrix? What am I missing here?
Comments on your slide#12 (from this email preliminary
theslides)
1. Slide#12: As you have mentioned, you have varied only in
theembedding, not in the data. General practice is to vary in
variationdata.
But
not sure if that will be accurately translated to the
uncertainties?in
efficiencythe
data. It is interesting. i) Then how do you use tracking
(+-4%) variation in embedding to get systematic
theii)
Can
you please do a test where you apply the same variation in
ifdata
and
use the respective variation in the embedding and then check
openyou
?(justget
approximately the same sys. variation between the two cases
shiftfor
one case which one has a bigger effect).
2. I like Style-4 (slide18) of figure-1 if you don't want to
the
published results. In this case, I would suggest using an
newblack
star for published results and a filled red marker for your
IttheMultifold results. Then you plot your red filled star top on
needpublished results (open back mark). In this case, you don't
statisticalto
good.shift the published results, and no confusion, and will look
3. SLide19, Fig-1 ratio plot: In this plot, assuming
orderuncertainties cancel out. Are these bands only the ratio of
systematic
uncertainties? Can you use a separate marker style here in
to
avoid your mass distribution red star style?
4. SLide#21: Thank you for including raw distribution here.
Multifoldlooks
like there is a noticeable difference between raw and
couldthislevels.
5. Slide#23: Thank you for including PYTHIA8 curves. I like
plot
and the comparison. Pythia8 and Data are consistent. You
cutpoint
between qout
that further study is ongoing to explore mass distribution
vs.
g using this |Q| cut. This is the main physics of this |Q|
here.
…STAR
Right? (Can you label "PYTHiA8" as "PYTHIA8 Detroit tune" or
tune?)
Cheers
Nihar
On 2022-09-23 20:29, Youqi Song via Star-hp-l wrote:
Hi all,
I have updated my slides for the preliminary request at:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/tongliu/Tong-Lius-HP-PWG-updateswhenmultifold
A few things that I would like to point out:
Regarding systematics,
- You might have noticed that the systematic errors for
have
gone up by a bit. This is because I realized that before,
massdoing
herwig and pythia8 shape variations, I was using pythia6
themissesdistribution for the misses. Now I changed it so that the
contribution for prior shape variation is also weighted by
shapesystematicsmass
ratio of herwig (pythia8) over pythia6.
- After talking with Isaac, I learned that unfolding
due
to variation of iteration number and variation of prior
originallywere
treated as correlated in previous analyses, while I
correlatedhad
these added in quadrature. Now I also treat them as
asby
just
taking the largest contribution to the unfolding systematic
thatmissingthe
overall unfolding systematic, and add it in quadrature withdetector
systematics.
- Regarding the question whether there's anything still
that's
raised during the meeting yesterday, I forgot to mention
didwe
smearing.haven't included detector and generator level pT shape
This
is included in Raghav's and Isaac's analyses because they
for1D
reweighting, but we are not sure if it should be included
samemultidimensional unfolding.
Regarding plotting,
- For fig. 1, I made the mass distribution plot with the
anderrordata
points in 4 different styles.- For fig. 1 ratio plot, the
band
is now centered at 1 and is the quadrature of RooUnfold's
valuesMultiFold's unfolding systematics, divided by the mean
correlationfrom
RooUnfold.
- For fig. 2, I also included a plot of the M vs Q
<youqi.song AT yale.edu>with
raw data before unfolding.unfolded
- For fig. 3, I have pythia8 curves plotted together with my
mass distributions.
Please let me know if you have any comments/suggestions.
Best,
Youqi
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 5:47 PM Youqi Song
wrote:
Hi all,
I have uploaded my slides here:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/youqi/multifold092222
Best,
Youqi
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 5:04 PM Tong Liu via Star-hp-l
<star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
Hi all,
Please find my pdf in this post:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/pwg/Hard-Probes/Weekly-HP-PWG-meetingresults
Tong Liu
Ph.D. Student '2023
Physics Dept., Yale University
Tel: 203-435-2130
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 3:29 AM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
<star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
Hello All,
We got requests from Youqi and Tong to present their
didfor
the
Hot
Quark conference.
And during Youqi's talk at the collaboration meeting, we
know)thisnot
get
time to have Q&A.
So let's meet this week to discuss their updates.
Youqi and Tong, can you please send link of your slides in
thread
again?
(I didn't get your previous emails, the reason I do not
know.
If anybody wants to discuss their results, please let us
HP-pwg weekly meeting Drupal page:
https://bnl.zoomgov.com/j/1611419615?pwd=VW1hNm43ZDd5d2EvK2R4aEJsQ2ZNZz09
Zoom Meeting link:
[1]https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/j/1611419615?pwd=VW1hNm43ZDd5d2EvK2R4aEJsQ2ZNZz09__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!HXAxDjpXwllezGXUg12_CP_CyiB1LboH0iAUfbzsPqj3eNb5aUboVO9QQZ6XzS2n6-OJ3TZo5Nq7ZITGfqCo0e94OA$
[1]
If[1]
[1]
[1]
Meeting ID: 161 141 9615
Passcode: 744968
Thank you
Barbara, Yi, Sooraj, Nihar
On 2022-09-19 22:13, Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l wrote:
Hello All,
Last week we discussed a lot at the collaboration meeting,
pwgthere is
no urgent matter to discuss, let's cancel this week's HP
meeting.
_______________________________________________
Have a great week.
Thank you
Barbara, Yi, Sooraj, and Nihar
_______________________________________________
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-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Youqi Song, 10/01/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Nihar Sahoo, 10/02/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Yi Yang, 10/06/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Nihar Sahoo, 10/06/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Tong Liu, 10/06/2022
- Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week, Barbara Trzeciak, 10/06/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Tong Liu, 10/06/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Nihar Sahoo, 10/06/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Yi Yang, 10/06/2022
-
Re: [Star-hp-l] (Reschedule to have) HP-pwg meeting this week,
Nihar Sahoo, 10/02/2022
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