STAR HardProbes PWG

[Barbara Trzeciak <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com>]

Hi Tristan,

nice slides. 

Please find my comments below. With these I sign off.

Cheers,

Barbara

- s3: increase a bit the size of the plot

- s5:  a fluctuating, background ->  a fluctuating background

- s8: add "STAR" before the journal name in the figure's reference

- s12: similarly, add there names of the collaborations to the references

- s13: you can indicate here the size of the isobar samples

- s14: add that the 3.4 trigger is on E_T

- s16: increase size of the resolution figure

- s19: would be good to quantify the non-zero v2 in terms of sigma

- s19: since the systematic uncertainty for now is only from the bkg. subtraction, I would specify it on the plots in your "Systematic Uncertainty" label. 

I would also add some information on the sys. unc. on the slide.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:39 AM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Hello Tristan,

Please find my comments on your v6 and additional comment below.

>>> 1) Have you updated your remaining sys uncertainty that we were
>>> waiting
>>> for?
>> No, my jobs are still processing, they seem to be moving through
>> rather slowly compared to what I am used to.  I took a quick look at
>> what has been produced so far and it seems consistent with the
>> existing measurement.
Can you please show some results/plots to support that you mentioned
here "seems consistent with the existing measurement"?

Slide19:
_ "Evidence of a non-zero v_2^ch jet in a medium sized system!" ->
"Indication of non-zero v_2^ch jet with R=0.2 in Isobar collisions at
RHIC"

_ "In general agreement with…ALICE Pb+Pb vch jet 2…Despite the very
different system kinematics"
-> "STAR Preliminary results hint the same v2^ch_jet with ALICE"
And make the following two sub bullets
1. Despite different jet pT range and collision system
2. Further systematic study is ongoing

Slide20:
_I think this slide is unnecessary and you can put in backup. But it is
up to you if you want to have more discuss on your results at this
preliminary stage.

Slide21 conclusion slide:
This slide should conclude your results as I mention in Slide19


Cheers
Nihar



On 2022-10-10 01:13, Rosi Reed wrote:
> Hi Tristan,
> This is looking quite nice.  Probably you should mention Tong's
> results somewhere (I believe he's the talk right before you).  I
> haven't been following - are there any other isobar results coming out
> this week? (this question to everyone)
>
> Slide 3: fragmets -> fragments
> Slide 5: I'd remove "uncorrelated" from the background, since the
> background is indirectly correlated through the EP.
>
> Slide 6: select on jets -> select jets
> Slide 8: Indicate this is Au+Au, I know it's written in the legend but
> it might be easy for someone to miss.
>
> Slide 9: each jet passed through -> each jet interacted with
> collision -> collisions
> Slide 13: My mistake - complementary should be complementarity.  I
> shouldn't make comments before coffee.
> Perhaps include the total number of collisions? That could be
> interesting.
> Slide 14: Include the trigger threshold in GeV.
> Slide 20: It's not complete, so medium sized systems will be very
> useful. Or something like this.
>
> Cheers,
> Rosi
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 1:22 PM Tristan Protzman <tlp220 AT lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Nihar,
>>
>> An updated draft has been uploaded.  I believe I have kept up on the
>> conversation between you and Rosi while I was working on these
>> changes, please let me know if I missed something.
>>
>> 1) Have you updated your remaining sys uncertainty that we were
>> waiting
>> for?
>> No, my jobs are still processing, they seem to be moving through
>> rather slowly compared to what I am used to.  I took a quick look at
>> what has been produced so far and it seems consistent with the
>> existing measurement.
>>
>> _2)Comments on Figures:_
>> _Slide18 fig:_
>> _1. You don't need to put description of "ALCIE sys bands like
>> correlated_
>> _and uncorrelated etc" One green circle is enough to represent
>> ALICE_
>> _results._
>> _2. Please include instead STAR sys box's description  in legend_
>> I have added a label for STARs systematics, but did not remove the
>> ALICE legend
>>
>> _Slide17 fig:_
>> __ Can you include v2 value (with uncertainty) in this figure that
>> you_
>> _get from the fitting?_
>> It was a deliberate choice not to since the v2 of the fit is the
>> observed v2, not corrected for the event plane resolution.  I felt
>> it would be confusing to quote one value there and then on the next
>> slide show a different value for the bin.
>>
>> _3) Additional comment:_
>> _I think EPD is used for the first time in jet v2 measurement._
>> _It would be good to include EP resolution plot that you get from
>> this_
>> _measurement._
>> _For that you can combine _slide15-16_ to make a story for EPD and
>> EP_
>> _calculation._
>> I had moved the slide on EPD resolution to the backup for time, what
>> I think I could do is move the diagram of the EPD on slide 16 to
>> slide 15, and instead have a resolution plot in its place.
>>
>> I will remake the resolution plot to better fit the space available,
>> but this will take a little time soI leave it as is for now.
>>
>> _4) Slide18(in _vesrion4_):_
>> _"Suggests that jet modification is path-length dependent, even in
>> medium_
>> _sized systems!"_
>> _Can you please elaborate how we draw the conclusion of " jet_
>> _modification is path-length dependent" in Isobar ?_
>> _We don't have any hard-core jet RAA/RCP measurement in isobar. Do
>> we_
>> have_?_
>> Throughout this talk I have been motivating the idea that if we have
>> a non-zero jet v2, then the jets in plane and out of plane (which
>> experience a different length through the medium)  are modified
>> different amounts.  Hence, path length dependent jet modification.
>>
>> _We can only say so far (from this preliminary study) what you have_
>> _mentioned in conclusion slide19 (with slight modification
>> "hint…")_
>> _"Hint of non-zero v2^ch jet is observed in a medium sized system "_
>>
>> _Please bring this statement in slide18_
>> Changed the last bullet to "Evidence of non-zero v2 in a medium
>> sized system"
>>
>> _5) Slide19(v4 version)_
>> __"A very different system!" -> "A very different kinematic range
>> and_
>> _system size"_
>> Changed.
>> __"v2ch jet is observed despite the introduced surface bias" ->
>> "v2ch jet_
>> _is observed despite the possible surface bias"_
>> Changed
>> _    I would be careful on this statement, as I mentioned we have
>> not done_
>> _any dijet Aj study in Isobar to _support of the_ surfaced bias jet_
>> _selection. It could be correct but we have not done any measurement
>> so_
>> _we should _abstain mentioning_ this._
>> _If you want, _then need_ to do Aj measurement for this hard core
>> jet_
>> _selection in Isobar._
>> I have changed the wording as suggested to be less strong, however I
>> feel it is still important to bring up.  Either there is a surface
>> bias introduced, in which case it is a little surprising we observed
>> jet v2 at all, or there isn't a surface bias like we see in Au+Au,
>> in which case our understanding of jet measurements is incomplete.
>>
>> __"Our picture of jet quenching is not complete - there is still
>> much to_
>> _discover"_
>> _       Sounds a vague statement. Please mention 1) what is not
>> completed_
>> _relating to jet quenching? 2) what do you think that needs to be_
>> _discovered?  Please _elaborate this
>> Elaborated to explain that it seems jet v2 may not be only a path
>> length effect, as it is in our usual picture of jet quenching.  _._
>>
>>> Slide:2
>>> _Second bullet seems out of context here. Coupling is large at low
>> Q^2
>>> then why  is it relevant for the QGP and your jet anisotropy
>>> measurements? This part is not clear here.
>>> It motivates the need for a perturbative object like jets to probe
>>> what we actually want to study, the QGP.  Changed text to clarify.
>>
>> Still it is not clear and confusing for 1st and 3rd bullets.
>> If you want to motivate jet (which pQCD calculable) and this is used
>> to
>> probe QGP (which is asymptotic region of coupling); then what is the
>> point to mention "alpha_s ~ O(1) at low Q^2."
>> I would suggest to rephrase;
>> "Since running coupling is asymptotically small at high Q^2,  pQCD
>> calculable probes are used to study the QGP medium"
>> Then you don't need 3rd bullet.
>>
>> The point of mentioning the strong coupling at low Q2 is to explain
>> why we cannot simply use perturbative calculations to study the QGP,
>> and instead need a different probe like jets.  If there is nothing
>> factually wrong, I would prefer to keep this.
>>
>> Slide4 (current  v4)
>> __ "We are interested in understanding the path-length dependence
>> of_
>> _these processes" -> "We are interested in understanding the
>> path-length_
>> _dependence of jet quenching"_
>> Changed
>> __"Both collisional and radiative" -> "Both collisional and
>> radiative_
>> _energy loss" or "Parton energy loss via both collisional and
>> radiative_
>> _processes"_
>> Changed
>>
>> _Slide 5_
>>> __"Soft processes produce a fluctuating background" what is that_
>>> _background? Is it track or _combinatoric_ jet background?_
>>> I'm not quite sure I understand what you are asking, it is the
>> tracks
>>> from soft processes which produce the combinatorial jet
>> background, so
>>> I suppose both?
>> Then it would good to mention, "Soft processes produce a fluctuating
>> uncorrelated background for jet measurement in heavy-ion collisions"
>> Here "uncorrelated" is important.
>> Added uncorrelated.
>>
>> Slide5 (current v4_), right figure is from STAR data or any model?
>> No_
>> _description mentioned there._
>> Added description
>>
>> slide8(in v4)
>> _ we are doing inclusive hard-core jet v2 measurement here. Is not
>> it?
>> _I am not convinced to motivate with dijet measurement here. Are we
>> going to do any dijet measurement in isobar?
>> _Selecting a hard-core jet may not imply you select surface biased
>> jet.
>> For that you need to show the same dijet Aj measurement in isobar
>> like
>> in Au+Au. If you have any result to demonstrate that you are
>> selecting
>> surfaced bias jet in Isobar, please show those results.
>> I think we have not done that study.
>>
>> I believe Rosi's comments address my thoughts on this as well
>>
>> _Slide 12_
>>> I am stating that although it may be described using the same
>>> framework as flow measurements, jet v2 is a different process.
>>
>> I would suggest to give a clear idea what could be that different
>> process, For example...?
>> Otherwise do not create unnecessary doubt or make statement just for
>> a
>> buzz?
>>
>> Rephrased
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tristan
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 12:03 PM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Rosi,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your reply.
>>> My overall suggestion on Tristan's presentation is that due to
>>> limited
>>> time, let's only focus on the observation from this preliminary
>>> results.
>>> for Any physics conclusion we need time to understand and discuss
>>> for
>>> that we don't have time now.
>>>
>>> Please find my response inline.
>>>
>>> On 2022-10-09 20:09, Rosi Reed wrote:
>>>> Hi Nihar,
>>>> Just a few comments here:
>>>>> 1. You don't need to put description of "ALCIE sys bands like
>>>> correlated
>>>>> and uncorrelated etc" One green circle is enough to represent
>>> ALICE
>>>>> results.
>>>> I think it's better to keep their descriptions here - otherwise
>>> it is
>>>> STAR telling ALICE what their data should look like.  The
>>> correlated
>>>> vs uncorrelated is important for making a statement about the
>>>> comparison, if everything was uncorrelated the significance of
>>> the
>>>> apparent agreement is much stronger, so I would be worried that
>>> by
>>>> changing their results we would be misleading our audience a
>>> little on
>>>> this very interesting result.
>>>
>>> That is fine and it is just PAs choice.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can you please elaborate how we draw the conclusion of " jet
>>>>> modification is path-length dependent" in Isobar ?
>>>>> We don't have any hard-core jet RAA/RCP measurement in isobar.
>>> Do we
>>>>> have?
>>>>
>>>> We don't have RAA/RCP, but I don't see why this is necessary for
>>> the
>>>> statement, we know that jet RAA will < 1 in the isobar system
>>> due to
>>>> other measurements made by STAR (and PHENIX).  You could have a
>>>> path-length dependent modification that averages out to
>>> precisely RAA
>>>> = 1, though that would be unlikely in a collision with a center
>>> of
>>>> mass energy greater than ~40 GeV judging by the RCP measurement
>>> made
>>>> by Stephen from the BES data.  With a signal at 3.5 sigma, we
>>> can
>>>> state that there is evidence for non-zero jet v2 at RHIC.  There
>>> must
>>>> be some geometrical physics process causing this - if there was
>>> not,
>>>> then the v2 would be close to zero.  In the paradigm of heavy
>>> ion
>>>> collisions we have a choice of initial state effects (so some
>>> MPI),
>>>> pressure gradients and path-length dependent suppression (i.e
>>> LPM
>>>> effect).  We know we can exclude the middle term due to the high
>>> Q^2
>>>> and the QGP formation time.  There is no evidence for the former
>>> term
>>>> as of yet, so within the paradigm of jets in heavy ion
>>> collisions the
>>>> latter is the assumption for the interpretation of the data that
>>>> remains.  I certainly don't think we can overturn a decades long
>>>> paradigm on the basis of a single statistics hungry measurement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I still don't understand your argument here.
>>> We don't have very good information about jet RAA/RCP in "isobar"
>>> collision mainly kinematic range in pT etc. I know we have BES RCP
>>> which
>>> is in Au+Au collision.
>>> Here the system size is smaller compared to Au+AU.
>>> Unless we measure Jet RAA/RCP in Isobar we should not make any
>>> conclusion/statement based on what we know from Au+Au measurement.
>>>
>>> But it is fine for me with the statement "there is evidence for
>>> non-zero
>>> jet v2 at RHIC in Isobar collision."
>>> We can't say anything more on "jet modification is path-length
>>> dependent" in Isobar collisions; simply because in this
>>> measurement we
>>> have not done any jet modification study.
>>> For that we need to explicitly perform jet suppression study for
>>> this
>>> system.
>>>
>>> So I suggest to remove "Suggests that jet modification is
>>> path-length
>>> dependent, even in medium sized systems!" on slide#18.
>>> and replacing  this "there is evidence for non-zero jet v2 at RHIC
>>> in
>>> Isobar collision." is very important conclusion here which is
>>> apparent
>>> from the figure.
>>> A further study is warranted to comment on path-length dependent
>>> jet
>>> modification which we can discuss after HQ.
>>>
>>>>> I would be careful on this statement, as I mentioned we have
>>> not
>>>> done
>>>>> any dijet Aj study in Isobar to support of the surfaced bias
>>> jet
>>>>> selection. It could be correct but we have not done any
>>> measurement
>>>> so
>>>>> we should abstain mentioning this.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe that we have to measure AJ to state this basic
>>> fact of
>>>> nuclear physics.  The surface bias of selecting hard
>>> fragmentation has
>>>> been discussed since the earliest papers on jet quenching
>>>>
>>>
>>
> (https://physics.fjfi.cvut.cz/files/predmety/02RQGP/zs1617/GyulassyPluemer.pdf
>>> [1]
>>>> [1] for example), and has been mentioned many times by STAR
>>> itself in
>>>> a variety of high pt and jet based measurements.  In fact, not
>>>> mentioning it after STAR spent so much time discussing jet
>>> geometry
>>>> evolution in the earlier AJ measurements would actually be akin
>>> to
>>>> walking back our earlier statements since we're using the same
>>> process
>>>> in this measurement.
>>>>
>>> As I mentioned above, we have not done any Aj measurement in this
>>> small
>>> system Isobar collisions.
>>> And we do not have enough time to have this discussion before HQ
>>> which
>>> we can discuss after the conf.
>>> Using same process/cuts may not imply the jets we find are also
>>> surfaced
>>> biased in small system, for this concern we can discuss in details
>>>
>>> later.
>>>
>>>> I have also made some comments on Tristan's talk that he'll
>>> follow up
>>>> on, and the official practice of his talk before the council
>>> member
>>>> will happen on Monday so there will be a little bit of tweaking,
>>> even
>>>> after he submits a draft v5.  One quick point on the
>>> uncertainties,
>>>> Rongrong was quite correct in the meeting on Thursday that the
>>>> uncertainty on the tracking efficiency only plays a role in the
>>>> uncertainty if we're unfolding.  So there are no further effects
>>> that
>>>> will change the systematics for this non-unfolded measurement -
>>> rather
>>>> we're waiting on this as a last cross-check.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to seeing Tristan's updated version.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Nihar
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rosi
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 4:14 AM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
>>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Tristan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for implementing my comments and your reply.
>>>>> Please find my further comments and reply to your response.
>>>>> All my comments on your recent version (v4).
>>>>> Please don't remove your old version; that can be done after
>>>>> finishing
>>>>> our discussion otherwise it is difficult to follow the slide
>>> numbers
>>>>>
>>>>> with new version.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Have you updated your remaining sys uncertainty that we were
>>>>> waiting
>>>>> for?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)Comments on Figures:
>>>>> Slide18 fig:
>>>>> 1. You don't need to put description of "ALCIE sys bands like
>>>>> correlated
>>>>> and uncorrelated etc" One green circle is enough to represent
>>> ALICE
>>>>> results.
>>>>> 2. Please include instead STAR sys box's description  in legend
>>>>>
>>>>> Slide17 fig:
>>>>> _ Can you include v2 value (with uncertainty) in this figure
>>> that
>>>>> you
>>>>> get from the fitting?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Additional comment:
>>>>> I think EPD is used for the first time in jet v2 measurement.
>>>>> It would be good to include EP resolution plot that you get
>>> from
>>>>> this
>>>>> measurement.
>>>>> For that you can combine slide15-16 to make a story for EPD and
>>> EP
>>>>> calculation.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) Slide18(in vesrion4):
>>>>> "Suggests that jet modification is path-length dependent, even
>>> in
>>>>> medium
>>>>> sized systems!"
>>>>> Can you please elaborate how we draw the conclusion of " jet
>>>>> modification is path-length dependent" in Isobar ?
>>>>> We don't have any hard-core jet RAA/RCP measurement in isobar.
>>> Do we
>>>>>
>>>>> have?
>>>>>
>>>>> We can only say so far (from this preliminary study) what you
>>> have
>>>>> mentioned in conclusion slide19 (with slight modification
>>> "hint…")
>>>>> "Hint of non-zero v2^ch jet is observed in a medium sized
>>> system "
>>>>>
>>>>> Please bring this statement in slide18
>>>>>
>>>>> 5) Slide19(v4 version)
>>>>> _"A very different system!" -> "A very different kinematic
>>> range and
>>>>>
>>>>> system size"
>>>>> _"v2ch jet is observed despite the introduced surface bias" ->
>>> "v2ch
>>>>> jet
>>>>> is observed despite the possible surface bias"
>>>>> I would be careful on this statement, as I mentioned we have
>>> not
>>>>> done
>>>>> any dijet Aj study in Isobar to support of the surfaced bias
>>> jet
>>>>> selection. It could be correct but we have not done any
>>> measurement
>>>>> so
>>>>> we should abstain mentioning this.
>>>>> If you want, then need to do Aj measurement for this hard core
>>> jet
>>>>> selection in Isobar.
>>>>>
>>>>> _"Our picture of jet quenching is not complete - there is still
>>> much
>>>>> to
>>>>> discover"
>>>>> Sounds a vague statement. Please mention 1) what is not
>>>>> completed
>>>>> relating to jet quenching? 2) what do you think that needs to
>>> be
>>>>> discovered?  Please elaborate this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remaining reply can be found inline.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-10-09 07:56, Tristan Protzman via Star-hp-l wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Nihar,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A new draft has been uploaded to Drupal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note: it should be written as $p$+$p$ and $p$+Au, etc, which
>>> is
>>>>>> different from the guidance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide:2
>>>>>> _Second bullet seems out of context here. Coupling is large at
>>> low
>>>>> Q^2
>>>>>> then why  is it relevant for the QGP and your jet anisotropy
>>>>>> measurements? This part is not clear here.
>>>>>> It motivates the need for a perturbative object like jets to
>>> probe
>>>>>> what we actually want to study, the QGP.  Changed text to
>>> clarify.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still it is not clear and confusing for 1st and 3rd bullets.
>>>>> If you want to motivate jet (which pQCD calculable) and this is
>>> used
>>>>> to
>>>>> probe QGP (which is asymptotic region of coupling); then what
>>> is the
>>>>>
>>>>> point to mention "alpha_s ~ O(1) at low Q^2."
>>>>> I would suggest to rephrase;
>>>>> "Since running coupling is asymptotically small at high Q^2,
>>> pQCD
>>>>> calculable probes are used to study the QGP medium"
>>>>> Then you don't need 3rd bullet.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _ Give reference to the running coupling plot. And you could
>>>>> replace
>>>>>> with most updated version where LHC measurements (very highQ2
>>>>> region)
>>>>>> are included if you want to start with it.
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __GIve a reference or credit for left cartoon._
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Figure removed, I felt it did not add to the message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide:4
>>>>>> _3rd bullet: "Leads to path length…"  this is not the only
>>>>> effect;
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> could be various other contributions like color factor, Temp
>>> of
>>>>> QGP,
>>>>>> initial gluon density, etc. But you need to mention Your
>>>>> motivation is
>>>>>> to study "path length dependence".
>>>>>> __ same comment for 4th bullet_
>>>>>> I have adjusted this section to clarify that the aspect of jet
>>>>>> modification I am trying to study is the path length dependent
>>>>> nature
>>>>>> of jet energy loss
>>>>>>
>>>>> Slide4 (current  v4)
>>>>> _ "We are interested in understanding the path-length
>>> dependence of
>>>>> these processes" -> "We are interested in understanding the
>>>>> path-length
>>>>> dependence of jet quenching"
>>>>>
>>>>> _"Both collisional and radiative" -> "Both collisional and
>>> radiative
>>>>>
>>>>> energy loss" or "Parton energy loss via both collisional and
>>>>> radiative
>>>>> processes"
>>>>>
>>>>>> _ 5th Bullet ("Both collisional and radiative") you need to
>>>>> provide
>>>>>> reference to the theory calculation for this L/L^2 dependence.
>>>>> These
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> model calculations.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Slide4 (current v4)
>>>>> _"Both collisional and radiative" -> "Both collisional and
>>> radiative
>>>>>
>>>>> energy loss" or "Parton energy loss via both collisional and
>>>>> radiative
>>>>> processes"
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Removed L/L^2 statements as I am not comparing to any models
>>> in
>>>>> this
>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _ This slide only focus on jet and jet quenching, but it
>>> doesn't
>>>>>> motivate your measurement like why jet anisotropy measurement
>>> is
>>>>>> required? Need to include some text on it.
>>>>>> I suggest you need to motivate jet anisotropy before you go to
>>> any
>>>>> jet
>>>>>> analysis details like in Slide5  underlying event discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The way I have structured my talk is to first motivate that we
>>>>> have
>>>>>> observed jet quenching.  I am using the dijet analysis to this
>>>>> end.  I
>>>>>> then want to contrast that with azimuthal anisotropy, which is
>>> not
>>>>> a
>>>>>> dissimilar measurement in that it probes jet modification, but
>>> it
>>>>> does
>>>>>> so in a new way.  Therefore, I think it makes sense to talk
>>> about
>>>>> jet
>>>>>> measurements and then the dijet measurement before introducing
>>> the
>>>>>> idea of anisotropy and motivating how that can get us towards
>>> the
>>>>>> missing path length dependence of a dijet analysis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SLide:5
>>>>>> _Not clear, what is that right side plot? Is this data or MC
>>>>>> simulation.
>>>>>> What is pT, of track or jet? What is Delta phi?
>>>>>> I agree, this plot was not particularly clear.  I have removed
>>> it.
>>>>>> __"Soft processes produce a fluctuating background" what is
>>> that_
>>>>>> _background? Is it track or _combinatoric_ jet background?_
>>>>>> I'm not quite sure I understand what you are asking, it is the
>>>>> tracks
>>>>>> from soft processes which produce the combinatorial jet
>>>>> background, so
>>>>>> I suppose both?
>>>>> Then it would good to mention, "Soft processes produce a
>>> fluctuating
>>>>>
>>>>> uncorrelated background for jet measurement in heavy-ion
>>> collisions"
>>>>> Here "uncorrelated" is important.
>>>>>
>>>>> Slide5 (current v4), right figure is from STAR data or any
>>> model? No
>>>>>
>>>>> description mentioned there.
>>>>>
>>>>>> __3rd _bulltet_ (Estimated…) it should _be sub-bullet_ of
>>> 2nd
>>>>> bullet
>>>>>> (Soft_
>>>>>> _process…)_
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>> __ what is kT?_
>>>>>> The k_T jet finding algorithm, clarified.
>>>>>> __ Jet area -> Jet area(A)_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide6:
>>>>>> _Not clear, what is that right side plot? Is this data or MC
>>>>>> simulation?
>>>>>> What is pT, eta, and phi?
>>>>>> This is the total track momentum for eta/phi bins for a
>>> collision.
>>>>>> __"A jet finder… had scattering and other processes" ->" had
>>>>>> scattering_
>>>>>> _and combinatorial background in heavy-ion collisions"_
>>>>>> _2nd bullet is not required if you mention above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _ _I have merged this with slide 5 and changed this wording
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SLide:7
>>>>>> I would suggest to use jet pT as $p_{\rm T, jet}$ throughout
>>> your
>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>> __Used in other STAR analysis -> Proved references_
>>>>>> __Provide _referecen_ to ALICE measurement_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide:8
>>>>>> _Move this slide or Isobar jet pT distribution after your
>>> slide14
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> you discuss about Isobar dataset. It seems the left side plot
>>> just
>>>>>> pop-up. This plot should be part of you results discussion
>>> even if
>>>>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a STAR performance plot.
>>>>>> Figure removed
>>>>>> __"Statistically unlikely for soft processes…" Please
>>> rephrase
>>>>>> this… not_
>>>>>> _clear._
>>>>>> Changed to clarify that it is unlikely for soft processes to
>>>>> produce
>>>>>> high pt hadrons which look like jets
>>>>>> __"May bias jet selection towards surface" Not sure the
>>> motivation
>>>>> of_
>>>>>> _this bullet. _why it is_ important? You are not doing jet
>>> RAA/RCP
>>>>>> study_
>>>>>> _and you do not study trigger jet v2 then why it is important
>>> if
>>>>> this
>>>>>> jet_
>>>>>> _is trigger biased or not. These jets should be treated as
>>>>> inclusive
>>>>>> _jet_._
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it not important to understand the biases we introduce into
>>> our
>>>>>> measurements?  By requiring the high pT hadrons the selected
>>> jets
>>>>> are
>>>>>> biased towards the surface of the QGP.  This is the motivation
>>> for
>>>>> one
>>>>>> of the items we would like to explore next in this analysis,
>>> the
>>>>>> variation of the hard core threshold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide:9
>>>>>> This slide is not relevant. You could put in Backup. (A
>>>>> distraction)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree, the story I am hoping to tell with this talk is
>>> that
>>>>> we
>>>>>> saw signs of jet quenching with measurements like dijet
>>> imbalance,
>>>>> but
>>>>>> that it doesn't tell the complete story.  We can continue our
>>>>>> understanding of jet quenching from dijet measurements to jet
>>> v2
>>>>>> measurements.
>>>>>
>>>>> slide8(in v4)
>>>>> _ we are doing inclusive hard-core jet v2 measurement here. Is
>>> not
>>>>> it?
>>>>> _I am not convinced to motivate with dijet measurement here.
>>> Are we
>>>>> going to do any dijet measurement in isobar?
>>>>> _Selecting a hard-core jet may not imply you select surface
>>> biased
>>>>> jet.
>>>>> For that you need to show the same dijet Aj measurement in
>>> isobar
>>>>> like
>>>>> in Au+Au. If you have any result to demonstrate that you are
>>>>> selecting
>>>>> surfaced bias jet in Isobar, please show those results.
>>>>> I think we have not done that study.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide:10
>>>>>> _ 1st bullet: Why it is important for Dijet imbalance
>>> discussion
>>>>> here?
>>>>>> You are doing inclusive jet v_n measurement. Not clear to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please see above my concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SLide12
>>>>>> _"A jet in plane interacts with less medium than one out of
>>> plane"
>>>>> ->
>>>>>> "A
>>>>>> jet interacts less with medium in plan than out of plane"
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>> __"Since jet production is isotropic, differences in yields
>>> are a
>>>>>> result_
>>>>>> _of medium interactions" Not sure, _what you_ want to say
>>> here?
>>>>>> Please_
>>>>>> reprhase_._
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>> __" like flow" Remove this._
>>>>>> I included this to help give context for the measurement to an
>>>>>> audience who may be familiar with flow studies, but not jet
>>>>> anisotropy
>>>>>> studies.  If you feel this is misleading I will remove it.
>>>>>> __ you do not discuss what is v_{2}^{jet} is?_
>>>>>> Changed equation to remove \Delta\phi -> \Psi_2 - \Phi_jet
>>>>>> __"Not a flow effect though!" Can you elaborate this?_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am stating that although it may be described using the same
>>>>>> framework as flow measurements, jet v2 is a different process.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would suggest to give a clear idea what could be that
>>> different
>>>>> process, For example...?
>>>>> Otherwise do not create unnecessary doubt or make statement
>>> just for
>>>>> a
>>>>> buzz?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SLide13
>>>>>> _RHIC produces a different, cooler QGP -> "RHIC produces a
>>> cooler
>>>>> QGP
>>>>>> medium than the LHC"
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>> __"Down to 10 _GeV"_ -> But you are not going to show down to
>>> 10
>>>>> GeV.
>>>>>> So_
>>>>>> _just remove this extra quantifier _subbullet. Main bullet is
>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do show down to 10 Gev though, my first point is 10-12.5
>>> GeV/c
>>>>> jets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide15:
>>>>>> - Jet trigger -> You don't use any jet trigger and BEMC info
>>> in
>>>>> your
>>>>>> measurement. If yes, just remove.
>>>>>> I do use the barrel high tower trigger in my analysis, as
>>> detailed
>>>>> in
>>>>>> the preliminary figure request.  I have clarified this as high
>>>>> tower
>>>>>> trigger rather than jet trigger.
>>>>>> _- Right side STAR detector, please indicate where is TPC,
>>> BEMC,
>>>>> EPD_
>>>>>> _- Mention kinematic acceptance of these detectors_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See updated slides, Yi mentioned this as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide16:
>>>>>> _you did not discuss what is Delta_phi?
>>>>>> I did not, but I am not sure I need to on this slide.  I will
>>>>> discuss
>>>>>> it on the next slide.
>>>>>> __right side plot, _make title_/_lable_ of x-, y-axis bigger
>>> so
>>>>> that
>>>>>> it will_
>>>>>> _be visible. And also legends _in side_ the plot._
>>>>>> Changed, made entire plot larger as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide18
>>>>>> Move this slide after Slide15
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide19
>>>>>> _INside fig, mention "red line" is fit fun.
>>>>>> Added.
>>>>>> __ inside fig, p_T^reco -> p_{\rm T, jet}^{reco} ; 12.5 ->
>>> 12.5
>>>>> GeV/c_
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>> __ you did not mention anywhere before what is "R"? And what
>>> jet
>>>>> _R
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are_ going to _do measurement_?_
>>>>>> It is labeled on the plot, and I will discuss it further on
>>> the
>>>>>> following slide.
>>>>>> __ what is v_{2}^ch? Need to mention _it charged_ jet v2. I
>>> would
>>>>>> suggest_
>>>>>> to use $v_{2}^{\rm ch, jet}$; And the same about v_{2}^ch,abs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slide20:
>>>>>> Before slide20, you need to discuss different jet v2 (all,
>>> hard
>>>>> core,
>>>>>> matched jet) and their spectra showing side-by-side
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand why?  I think that was a good check
>>> to
>>>>> make
>>>>>> and certainly worth having in the backup, but the measurement
>>>>> being
>>>>>> presented is jet v2 using the hard core matching criteria, the
>>>>> need
>>>>>> for which is motivated earlier in the talk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slie21:
>>>>>> _  "Jet v2 is a exciting measurement for determining the
>>>>> path-length
>>>>>> dependence of jet quenching" -> This statement is fine to
>>>>> motivate.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> for your conclusion this may not be relevant. Because we don't
>>>>> have
>>>>>> jet
>>>>>> v2 measurement for different path length/system size with the
>>> same
>>>>>> kinematic coverage. And you did not discuss what is the
>>> strategy
>>>>> for
>>>>>> your measurement unless you plan to do the same in AU+AU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _"Jets which are in plane interact with a different amount of
>>> the
>>>>> QGP
>>>>>> than those out of plane" Not sure how do you get this
>>> conclusion
>>>>> from
>>>>>> your measurement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have updated my conclusions to better reflect the points I
>>> wish
>>>>> to
>>>>>> make and where I will go next with this analysis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> Nihar
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 1:34 PM Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Tristan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the reply and the updated version.
>>>>>>> They look very good to me.
>>>>>>> Let's wait for your study and the decision on the preliminary
>>>>>>> results!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Yi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:26 AM Tristan Protzman
>>>>> <tlp220 AT lehigh.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Yi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the feedback!  I have uploaded an updated
>>> version
>>>>> and
>>>>>>> addressed your comments below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - p4: Are the sub-bullet for the 3rd bullet and the 4th
>>> bullet
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I have removed that redundancy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - p6: toy mode --> toy model
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fixed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - p9: Just for my own education, could you please tell me why
>>> A_j
>>>>>>> can be less than 0 (I am assuming pT^1 and pT^2 are leading
>>> and
>>>>>>> subleading jet pT, respectively, is it correct)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, (pT^1, pT^2) is the (leading, subleading) jet pT.  The
>>> red
>>>>>>> points are the measurement of A_j using only hard cores.
>>> This is
>>>>>>> where leading and subleading are determined, thus no points
>>> below
>>>>> 0.
>>>>>>> However, after matching is done, leading and subleading are
>>> not
>>>>>>> recalculate, so it is possible for the subleading hard core
>>> to
>>>>> match
>>>>>>> to a jet with more momentum than the leading hard core does,
>>>>>>> resulting in negative A_j.  There are a few ways this could
>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>> The subleading jet could contain a larger soft component than
>>> the
>>>>>>> leading jet, thus when added to the hard core the magnitudes
>>>>> flip.
>>>>>>> Additionally, because of the fluctuating background the
>>> leading
>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> could be over subtracted and the subleading jet under
>>> subtracted,
>>>>>>> again flipping the relative magnitude.  This would not affect
>>> the
>>>>>>> hard core since background subtraction is not done on that
>>>>>>> collection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - p15: It would be good if you can provide more information
>>> for
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> subdetectors, for example eta and phi coverage...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I added more information about each system and labeled the
>>>>> picture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - p18: Jet v2 not feasible --> Jet v2 is not feasible
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changed to Jet v2 was not feasible
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Tristan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 1:59 PM Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tristan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the nice slide. I have some
>>> suggestions/comments
>>>>>>> for your consideration.
>>>>>>> - p4: Are the sub-bullet for the 3rd bullet and the 4th
>>> bullet
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same?
>>>>>>> - p6: toy mode --> toy model
>>>>>>> - p8: Title: Hardcore --> Hard core
>>>>>>> - p9: Just for my own education, could you please tell me why
>>> A_j
>>>>>>> can be less than 0 (I am assuming pT^1 and pT^2 are leading
>>> and
>>>>>>> subleading jet pT, respectively, is it correct)?
>>>>>>> - p15: It would be good if you can provide more information
>>> for
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> subdetectors, for example eta and phi coverage...
>>>>>>> - p18: Jet v2 not feasible --> Jet v2 is not feasible
>>>>>>> - Since we are not settled with your preliminary results yet,
>>> I
>>>>>>> will comment on p20 and p21 later. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Yi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 12:36 AM Tristan Protzman via
>>> Star-hp-l
>>>>>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I submitted this material for review last week, but it seems
>>> to
>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been lost somehow, so I am resending it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Tristan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 12:33 PM webmaster--- via Star-hp-l
>>>>>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tristan Protzman (tlp220 AT lehigh.edu) has submitted a material
>>> for
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> review,
>>>>>>> please have a look:
>>>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/61264
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deadline: 2022-10-11
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> If you have any problems with the review process, please
>>> contact
>>>>>>> webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>>>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Rosi Reed
>>>> RHIC/AGS UEC member
>>>> Associate Professor, Physics Department
>>>> Lehigh University
>>>> (610)758-3907
>>>> 16 Memorial Drive East Office 406
>>>> Bethlehem, PA 18015
>>>> she/her/hers
>>>>
>>>> Links:
>>>> ------
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://physics.fjfi.cvut.cz/files/predmety/02RQGP/zs1617/GyulassyPluemer.pdf__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!Ez8frSqNJbBBgywunqqEJilI-3bnKgpyx5zAD_HBfZVBjsvOPutfr1MohqqCsvBHTEzGzKHaD71BzzjqNgYSMSxtUg0$
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> --
>
> Rosi Reed
> RHIC/AGS UEC member
> Associate Professor, Physics Department
> Lehigh University
> (610)758-3907
> 16 Memorial Drive East Office 406
> Bethlehem, PA 18015
> she/her/hers
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://physics.fjfi.cvut.cz/files/predmety/02RQGP/zs1617/GyulassyPluemer.pdf__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!Gefe0ju9rcN99F2sdKwa02DcxDpYcYDrMNRpO7YHHkUi2VxhBsYngZLotuzAVnl6JswQdZzm9YXfl10gmLeQN4ZDwy0$
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