STAR HardProbes PWG

[Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>]

Hi Andrew,

For a record, I sign off.

Cheers
Nihar

On 2022-10-21 12:24, Yi Yang via Star-hp-l wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thanks a lot for the explanation and updated version. I don't have any
> further comments/suggestions on your nice presentation.
>
> Cheers,
> Yi
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Yi Yang, Associate Professor
> Department of Physics
> National Cheng Kung University
> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
> Fax: +886-6-2747995
> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [1]
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 4:00 AM Andrew Tamis <andrew.tamis AT yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Yi,
> >
> > p5: Ah, this was a mistake, i meant to replace it with pT_Jet as I
> > did in slide 6, it is fixed now, thank you for pointing that out!
> >
> > The three regions are distinguished by the trend of the slope of
> > each, free hadrons with a constant positive slope in log scale, then
> > the transition region when that slope starts decreasing and ending
> > at the highest point.  Then the quark/gluon region is an almost flat
> > region with a small negative slope and ends when the slope gets
> > steeper.  In the future I could be more rigorous to get values of
> > the beginning and ending of each region by curve fitting, but I want
> > to demonstrate in this talk that you can read off the general
> > behavior by eye.
> >
> > Best,
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 2:25 PM Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > Thanks a lot for the nice slides. I only have a few
> > comments/suggestions on v3 for your consideration.
> > - p5: could you please indicate what Q is in the formula?
> > - p7 or p8 (p9: just for my own education, how do you determine
> > the "Free Hadron", "Transition", and "Quarks/Gluons" regions? You
> > mentioned in p7 "Each region is determined by its scaling behavior,
> > could you please tell me more about this? Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Yi
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 2:00 PM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
> > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > Hello Tamis,
> >
> > Thank you for addressing my comments.
> > I have a few additional comments after going through your motivation
> > and
> > Pythia study again.
> >
> > SLide3 (also 4-7): Although you have shown what is "Delta R" in the
> > cartoon, but can you please define or mention what is "Delta R"?
> > As you mention the relation with formation time, a clear definition
> > is
> > missing.
> >
> > Slide7: Can you mention what is "R_L" in x-axis? Is that as
> > "ln(Delta_R)"?
> >
> > Slide8: How do you distinguish (or set the ranges along x-axis)
> > green-free hadron, gray-transition, and blue-parton region in
> > PYTHIA6? I
> > don't know how it has been done in theory (right side plot)? A
> > guidance
> > will be helpful. It brings a question for SLide10.
> >
> > Slide10: can you set those gree/gray/blue regions for different jet
> > pT
> > to see how much those regions shift as a function of jet pT?
> > Visually,
> > there is a change in shape. But can we say something which region is
> >
> > shifting to where and how much that shift is (in Pythia)?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Nihar
> >
> > On 2022-10-20 11:55, Andrew Tamis via Star-hp-l wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Thank you for the comments!
> > >
> > > I have decided to remove the detector level data, leaving the
> > > comparison between PYTHIA and Geant.  Showing that these agree
> > > relatively well will give justification that the needed unfolding
> > > effects will be small, and because of this data won't be shown
> > until
> > > unfolding is completed.
> > >
> > > In addition I have addressed comments given here
> > >
> > > Nihar's Comments
> > >
> > > "_Before SLide14, you could introduce STAR detector system and
> > what
> > > are
> > > the detectors you plan to use for your measurement? A short intro
> > is
> > > sufficient."
> > >
> > > I will verbally introduce STAR and the TPC, but as i am now no
> > longer
> > > showing data, is introduction of the specific detectors still
> > needed?
> > > please let me know.
> > >
> > > Slide 14 and 15 have been removed/changed
> > >
> > > Slide16:
> > > _Interesting behavior in response to pT cuts -> PYTHIA6
> > simulation:
> > > EEC
> > > shows a dependence on jet p_{T}
> > > _Robust to pT-independent tracking efficiency effects -> should we
> > say
> > > this a "robust" or "mild" "negligible" pT-dependent ?
> > > We have not checked yet with pT-dependent tracking efficiency.
> > > (Slide13)
> > > _ last two bullets "Detector-Level measurement done in STAR p+p
> > run 12
> > > and Unfolding in progress " I would just say combining "First
> > > measurement of ECC in pp sqrt(s)=200 GeV is in progress in STAR"
> > >
> > > Done.
> > >
> > > Barbara's comments
> > >
> > > _- s5,6: increase text size of the bullet points._
> > > _- s8-9: label the left plots Pythia and add the version. I would
> > also
> > > suggest adding on the top of the plots a bigger label with the jet
> > pT
> > > information. Right now it's hidden in the "Parameters", so it
> > might
> > > not be so obvious to everyone that moving to STAR energy means
> > > lowering the jet pT range. _
> > >
> > > Done.
> > >
> > > I have uploaded the updated draft, please let me know if you have
> > any
> > > additional comments
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 1:09 AM Sooraj Radhakrishnan via Star-hp-l
> > > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Barbara, Andrew,
> > > > //s15: to address Sooraj's concerns, which I also share, I would
> > > > propose to remove "PYTHIA 6" and "GEANT" points and leave the raw
> > > > detector level data distributions. What do you think?//
> > > >
> > > > Yes, this would also be an option. It is up to Andrew to decide
> > > > which progress and message he wants to show
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > Sooraj
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 11:40 PM Barbara Trzeciak
> > > > <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Andrew,
> > > >
> > > > nice slides, please see my comments below.
> > > >
> > > > - s5,6: increase text size of the bullet points.
> > > > - s8-9: label the left plots Pythia and add the version. I would
> > > > also suggest adding on the top of the plots a bigger label with
> > the
> > > > jet pT information. Right now it's hidden in the "Parameters", so
> > it
> > > > might not be so obvious to everyone that moving to STAR energy
> > means
> > > > lowering the jet pT range.
> > > > - s14: pp Run12 -> add energy and centrality
> > > > - s15: to address Sooraj's concerns, which I also share, I would
> > > > propose to remove "PYTHIA 6" and "GEANT" points and leave the raw
> > > > detector level data distributions. What do you think?
> > > > Sooraj, would that work for you ?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Barbara
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 12:36 PM Sooraj Radhakrishnan via
> > Star-hp-l
> > > > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Andrew,
> > > > Are you referring to the plots of S9/10 as performance plots?
> > > > From your S15, comparing PYTHIA and GEANT, the detector effects
> > seem
> > > > to be small. So I have a concern that we will be in effect
> > showing
> > > > the data as preliminary results. I believe you are not ready to
> > > > release the results without the systematics and unfolding done.
> > So I
> > > > would suggest not to show data points for the energy correlator,
> > > > rather some other performance plots that would indicate your
> > > > progress and STAR's ability to do the measurements. Let me know
> > what
> > > > you think
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > Sooraj
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 12:29 PM Nihar Sahoo
> > > > <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > > > Hello Tamis,
> > > >
> > > > It is a good study on this new observable.
> > > > AFA Pythia study is concern, I don't have any comments.
> > > > I have some minor comments on your data analysis slides.
> > > >
> > > > _ Before SLide14, you could introduce STAR detector system and
> > what
> > > > are
> > > > the detectors you plan to use for your measurement? A short intro
> > is
> > > > sufficient.
> > > >
> > > > Slide14:
> > > > _ pp Run12 -> pp sqrt(s)=200 GeV (year 2012)
> > > > _Trigger - JP2 -> As no one know what is JP2, so it would be good
> > to
> > > > mention "Jet patch trigger" (here 2 is not necessary for outside
> > > > world
> > > > as you describe details about this trigger in sub-bullet)
> > > > _ Constituent PT ->  Constituent Transverse momentum, p_{T}
> > > > _Official Embedding, PYTHIA 6  -> PYTHIA6+STAR Géant simulation
> > > >
> > > > Slide15:
> > > > _ Please include "pp sqrt(s) =200 GeV" as legend
> > > > _ Detector level data retains trends in jet momentum selection ->
> > > > Detector level data retains trends in jet p_{T} selection
> > > >
> > > > Slide16:
> > > > _Interesting behavior in response to pT cuts -> PYTHIA6
> > simulation:
> > > > EEC
> > > > shows a dependence on jet p_{T}
> > > > _Robust to pT-independent tracking efficiency effects -> should
> > we
> > > > say
> > > > this a "robust" or "mild" "negligible" pT-dependent ?
> > > > We have not checked yet with pT-dependent tracking efficiency.
> > > > (Slide13)
> > > > _ last two bullets "Detector-Level measurement done in STAR p+p
> > run
> > > > 12
> > > > and Unfolding in progress " I would just say combining "First
> > > > measurement of ECC in pp sqrt(s)=200 GeV is in progress in STAR"
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Nihar
> > > >
> > > > On 2022-10-17 23:00, Andrew Tamis via Star-hp-l wrote:
> > > > > Hi Sooraj,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think I would like to show the PYTHIA results and performance
> > > > plots
> > > > > and hold off on a preliminary request until I get farther along
> > > > with
> > > > > unfolding.  Do you mean that I should show the performance plots
> > > > of
> > > > > detector level data without the comparison to PYTHIA/Geant?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 8:59 AM Sooraj Radhakrishnan via
> > Star-hp-l
> > > > > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Andrew,
> > > > > > Thanks for preparing these nice slides. Since you show detector
> > > > > > level and generator level PYTHIA distribution are quite
> > similar,
> > > > I
> > > > > > wonder if the results should be labelled STAR Preliminary, as
> > > > they
> > > > > > can be argued to be close to the physics results. Do you want
> > to
> > > > > > show the data also at DNP or just the PYTHIA results and give
> > > > some
> > > > > > performance plots for data?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks
> > > > > > Sooraj
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 6:27 AM webmaster--- via Star-hp-l
> > > > > > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Andrew Tamis (andrew.tamis AT yale.edu) has submitted a material
> > > > for
> > > > > > > a review,
> > > > > > > please have a look:
> > > > > > > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/61351
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deadline: 2022-10-27
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > If you have any problems with the review process, please
> > contact
> > > > > > > webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Star-hp-l mailing list
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sooraj Radhakrishnan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Research Scientist,
> > > > > > Department of Physics
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kent State University
> > > > > > Kent, OH 44243
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
> > > > > > Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
> > > > > > MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
> > > > > > Berkeley, CA 94720
> > > > > > Ph: 510-495-2473 [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Star-hp-l mailing list
> > > > > > Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > > > > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Links:
> > > > > ------
> > > > > [1] tel:%28510%29%20495-2473
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Star-hp-l mailing list
> > > > > Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > > > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Sooraj Radhakrishnan
> > > >
> > > > Research Scientist,
> > > > Department of Physics
> > > >
> > > > Kent State University
> > > > Kent, OH 44243
> > > >
> > > > Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
> > > > Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
> > > > MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
> > > > Berkeley, CA 94720
> > > > Ph: 510-495-2473 [1]
> > > >
> > > > Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Star-hp-l mailing list
> > > > Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Sooraj Radhakrishnan
> > >
> > > Research Scientist,
> > > Department of Physics
> > >
> > > Kent State University
> > > Kent, OH 44243
> > >
> > > Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
> > > Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
> > > MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
> > > Berkeley, CA 94720
> > > Ph: 510-495-2473 [1]
> > >
> > > Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Star-hp-l mailing list
> > > Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
> > >
> > >
> > > Links:
> > > ------
> > > [1] tel:%28510%29%20495-2473
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> > > Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
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