STAR HardProbes PWG

[Youqi Song <youqi.song AT yale.edu>]

Hi Nihar and all,

I have updated my slides here: https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v4.1.pdf. I added "(z_cut,2 , beta_2) = (0.1, 0)" on slide 4, and the statement on slide 14 "consistent with angular ordered parton showers" is what Helen suggested in the email with Monika. In addition, I put a slide for comparison with theory calculation in backup.

Best,

Youqi

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 2:01 PM Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:

Hi Youqi,

Please find my further comments inline.

On 2023-03-24 20:11, Youqi Song wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have updated my slides here:
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v4.pdf.
>
> Addressing Nihar's comments:
>
>> Slide4:
>> You don't describe what is (z_cut,2 , beta_2). Please mention what
>> is
>> that.
>> if you don't use, mention it.
>
> It's a good point that I should make both sets of (z_cut, beta) values
> clear. I've updated my figures in the later slides to include
> (z_cut,1, beta_1) = (0,0) and (z_cut,2, beta_2) = (0.1,0). I will
> upload these figures to drupal shortly. But as for slide 4, I am
> inclined to not put in (z_cut,2, beta_2) = (0.1, 0) here, since this
> bullet point here says "special case". What's "special" about this
> case is that (z_cut1, beta_1) = (0,0), which I have written on the
> slide, but the exact values of (z_cut,2, beta_2) don't make it
> "special".

Sorry, I don't get my answer.
Have you used (z_cut,2 , beta_2) in your analysis or not?
If you have used it, just mention it in this slide.
If not, don't mention it.

>
>> SLide:6
>> "Note: Hadronization effects smear the distribution but don’t
>> affect the
>> correlations (see backup)"
>>
>> Please either put some plots here to show what you claim or remove
>> it
>> and in case someone asks you go to your backup slide.
>> In your talk while presenting, no one will go to see your backup.
>
> I have discussed this with Helen, and we think it will be useful to
> have a note somewhere in the main slides to acknowledge that we have
> studied the effect of hadronization. Since the talk is already on the
> long side, I think it might be better to keep the plots in the backup.
> In case someone asks me to go to backup slides during Q&A or coffee
> breaks, I would happily do so.
>
>> "consistent with angular ordered parton shower picture"
>> Do you mean all subsequent emissions from hard parton in vacuum as a
>> function of formation time?
>
> I have now moved this statement up to combine with the first bullet
> point, since we have agreed in the "Re: Text for Youqi's slide for HP
> Plenary" email thread that in the HP highlight talk that the physics
> message is "Anti-correlation of collinear dropped jet mass and Rg
> confirms angular ordering in vacuum showers”

I don't get my answer here.

So I would not say "confirms".
Because it is not clear what "angular ordering" we are saying here?


Thank you
Nihar

>
> Best,
> Youqi
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 9:08 AM Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw> wrote:
>
>> Hi Helen,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the explanation.
>> I completely confused myself... it is completely fine to me if
>> HERWIG is running at 200 GeV.
>>
>> Chees,
>> Yi
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Yi Yang, Professor
>> Department of Physics /
>> Director of Science Education Center
>> National Cheng Kung University
>> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
>> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
>> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
>> Fax: +886-6-2747995
>> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [1]
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 5:58 PM Helen Caines
>> <helen.caines AT yale.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Yi, Barbara,
>>
>> Youqi can correct me if I am wrong, but the HERWIG simulation is
>> run at 200 GeV is it just that the tune was done to LHC data.
>>
>> So the physics evolution with sqrt(s) should be there and the
>> comparison valid. Also, since this is a substructure variable if
>> they have the quark/gluon fraction changing appropriately with
>> sqrt(s) the agreement should be good if they are modeling this well
>> at LHC energies. Once the hard scatter has occurred, and assuming
>> the UE isn’t contaminating the results horribly, how the parton
>> splits and then hadronizes should be independent of the original
>> sqrt(s) of the collision for a fixed jet pT and parton species.
>>
>> Helen
>>
>> ***********************
>> Yale University
>> Physics Dept. - Wright Lab.
>> PO Box 208120
>> New Haven, CT 06520
>> 203-432-5831
>> ***********************
>> she/her/hers
>> "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.
>> It's about learning how to dance in the rain." - Vivian Greene
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2023, at 4:16 PM, Youqi Song via Star-hp-l
>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thanks for the additional feedback! I have implemented all the
>> suggestions and  uploaded my slides here:
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v3_print.pdf.
>> Regarding the HERWIG comparisons, I think we are only making a weak
>> statement by claiming that "they are roughly consistent with the
>> trend of data", so we aren't drawing too much physics out of the
>> comparisons. But I will discuss that more with Helen and Raghav on
>> that and update you about it.
>>
>> Please let me know if you have any additional comments and
>> questions!
>>
>> Best,
>> Youqi
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 5:44 AM Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Youqi,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the updated version and reply. I don't have any
>> further comments on your nice slides.
>> Just want to follow up the HERWIG7, I understand it has different
>> hadronization and it is (probably) okay to compare it with. But can
>> you really draw a conclusion from this comparison? I mean, can you
>> tell the difference is due to different collision energy or
>> hadronization process? If not, I am not sure how helpful this
>> comparison can be. Just my two cents.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Yi
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Yi Yang, Professor
>> Department of Physics /
>> Director of Science Education Center
>> National Cheng Kung University
>> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
>> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
>> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
>> Fax: +886-6-2747995
>> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [2]
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:59 PM Youqi Song <youqi.song AT yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Barbara, Nihar and Yi,
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback! I have updated my slides here:
>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v3.pdf
>>
>> Regarding Barbara's comments:
>>
>> Just a comment on s16. It's hard to quickly judge by eye which
>> distribution is more steep so it might not be obvious to people. But
>> you don't need the right plot to make this point. The first split
>> should be basically the sum of the contributions that you show on
>> your plot. So naturally it should be less steep than the blue, if
>> green and yellow are flatter. With the z_g in R_g bins we show that
>> we saw the np contributions to the first split and have a consistent
>> picture - as you write in your backup. Which I think is a nice
>> physics message.
>> I see, that's a good point. I switched the zg vs Rg plot into the
>> main section and zg vs # splitting to backup.
>>
>> Regarding Nihar's comments:
>>
>> I have fixed the wording and updated my figures here:
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/youqi/Multidimensional-jet-substructure-multifold-preliminary-figures.
>>
>> Regarding Yi's comments:
>>
>> - p2: your right-handed cartoon plot covers the text a bit.
>> - p3: the resolution at the left-bottom area (z_g, z_cut, and beta)
>> is not good? And similar for dM/M and M on p4.
>> I fixed these in the new version.
>> - p6: What does "~" mean here? I saw 3 places.
>> I use "~" to indicate something like "roughly implies/looks like".
>> We wanted to be careful here because hadronization effects can
>> affect our measurements. I added a note about that on this slide.
>>
>> - p12: Could you please remind me of the motivation for comparing
>> HERWIG with LHC tune? Do we expect the tune works for RHIC?
>> We don't have a HERWIG tune at RHIC energy, and this LHC tune that
>> we used is the default tune in HERWIG7. I think it's still useful to
>> compare since it does hadronization differently from PYTHIA.
>>
>> - p14: the "boxes (yellow, green, and black)" cover the information
>> on the plot, could you please try a thinner line for them?
>> I have my slides in animation, so when the left side 2D plot first
>> shows up, those boxes are not there. I will keep them for my
>> presentation, but perhaps when I upload the slides to the indico
>> page I can remove those boxes.
>>
>> Best,
>> Youqi
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 8:36 AM Yi Yang via Star-hp-l
>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Youqi,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the nice slides. I only have some minor comments
>> for your consideration.
>> - p2: your right-handed cartoon plot covers the text a bit.
>> - p3: the resolution at the left-bottom area (z_g, z_cut, and beta)
>> is not good? And similar for dM/M and M on p4.
>> - p6: What does "~" mean here? I saw 3 places.
>> - p12: Could you please remind me of the motivation for comparing
>> HERWIG with LHC tune? Do we expect the tune works for RHIC?
>> - p14: the "boxes (yellow, green, and black)" cover the information
>> on the plot, could you please try a thinner line for them?
>> - p15: I am not sure if it is good to say "See Monika's talk at
>> HP", probably is okay...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Yi
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Yi Yang, Professor
>> Department of Physics /
>> Director of Science Education Center
>> National Cheng Kung University
>> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
>> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
>> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
>> Fax: +886-6-2747995
>> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [3]
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 10:14 AM webmaster--- via Star-hp-l
>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>> Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
>>
>> Youqi Song (youqi.song AT yale.edu) has submitted a material for a
>> review,
>> please have a look:
>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/62961
>>
>> Deadline: 2023-03-27
>> ---
>> If you have any problems with the review process, please contact
>> webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
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