STAR HardProbes PWG

[Raghav Kunnawalkam Elayavalli <kunnawalkamraghav AT gmail.com>]

Fair enough. I'll take plausible :)

Cheers
Raghav

(Sent from my phone - please excuse my brevity)

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 8:25 AM Joern Putschke <joern.putschke AT wayne.edu> wrote:

Hi Raghav,

 

Sounds plausible. However, I think one should definitely follow this up after HP.

Thanks

 

Joern

 

 

 

From: Raghav Kunnawalkam Elayavalli <kunnawalkamraghav AT gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:26 PM
To: Joern Putschke <joern.putschke AT wayne.edu>, STAR HardProbes PWG <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
Cc: Kunnawalkam Raghav <kunnawalkamraghav AT gmail.com>, Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>, Helen Caines <helen.caines AT yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Star-hp-l] (version-4) STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova for Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review

Hi Joern, 

 

I sent this yesterday but it probably got lost in the other emails - 

 

for monika’s mu observable - i think i have an example of a punchy physics statement after brainstorming with Helen offline - 

 

so we know that mass is connected to virtuality yes. mu is mass fraction of the leading daughter compared to the mother. so it is essentially studying the rate of ‘virtuality reduction’ in our jet. Monika’s data shows mu having a slight dependence on rg. while the distributions don’t move as dramatically as the kT or change shape as the zg, we can see that the mean moves to the left as we reduce the rg values. 

 

so here is my statement - the <mu> going to smaller values with smaller rg is evidence of virtuality reduction in our jets. smaller values of mu imply a fast reduction of the virtuality. on the contrary, mu being large means that the leading daughter carries more of the virtuality or mass from the mother which only happens at large angles. 

 

for the plenary talk - “Shift of \mu to smaller values at smaller angles indicates a faster reduction of virtuality in the jet shower”. 

 

thoughts? 

 

Cheers
Raghav 


**************************************
First Name - Raghav 
Last Name - Kunnawalkam Elayavalli
Pronouns - they/them
email - raghav.ke AT vanderbilt.edu 
website - https://www.raghavke.me 

RHIC/AGS UEC member
Assistant Professor of Physics
Stevenson Center 6410
Physics & Astronomy Department
Vanderbilt University 
Nashville, TN 37235-1807
**************************************

On Mar 25, 2023, at 5:27 AM, Joern Putschke via Star-hp-l <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

 

Hi Helen, Raghav et al,

 

If there is consensus on a formulation for the groomed mass fraction on p8 (latest version), please let us know and we can update accordingly.

 

Thanks

 

Joern

 

 

From: Star-hp-l <star-hp-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
Date: Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 7:11 AM
To: Helen Caines <helen.caines AT yale.edu>
Cc: STAR HardProbes PWG <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
Subject: Re: [Star-hp-l] (version-4) STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova for Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review

[EXTERNAL]

Hello Helen,

Thank you for your comments.
I have implemented all your suggestions in version-4.
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/presentations/Hard-Probes-2023/STAR-Experimental-Highlights

Regards
Nihar

On 2023-03-25 03:16, Helen Caines wrote:
> Hi Nihar, Joern
>
> This looks pretty good now, thanks for all the hard work. A few more
> comments/questions
>
> Slide 2: It would be nice to highlight on this slide what data will be
> shown at this conference, its quite a bit
>
> Slide 6: the statement seems to have become garbled it should say
>
> Transition region at Delta(R)* pT_jet =  2-3 GeV for all jet pT
> —> Confinement of quark/gluon degrees of freedom into hadrons occurs
> at universal momentum scale
>
> I don’t know what (tbf) means
>
> I think Andrew has one more correction after the good suggestion to
> change the theory credit to K. Lee et al.
>
> For slide 7 I just sent around a compromise statement I think all can
> agree on at this point.
>
> Slide 9: the title is a bit weird. Aren’t we always trying to model
> reality?
> Maybe Confronting models with data:
>
> Slide 11: for the Raa plot, what do you mean by there is no energy
> dependence? We can’t tell from what is shown there as it is all at
> 200 GeV.
> I think the caption should read
>
> Suppression driven by <N_part>
>  - energy density more of a driver of average quenching than initial
> geometry
>
> Why do you have the question "Consistent picture with jet
> measurements?” what do you think is inconsistent?
>
> Slide 12: Highest precision on J/ψ measurement at RHIC energies —>
> Highest precision J/ψ measurement at RHIC energies to date
>
> Slide 13: The left plot is missing the sqrt(s) energy
>
> Slide 15: I suggest Sufficient QGP temperature to melt states at RHIC
> —> Sufficient QGP temperature to melt states at top RHIC energies
>
> Slide 16:  Why do you have “almost” in the following sentence
> "Almost the same level of jet and J/ψ suppression as seen in
> Au+Aucollisions;” Within errors it is the same at the same Npart,
> which means its significantly less in central Isobar than central
> Au-Au
>
> Suggest "Observed different manifestation of jet-medium…” —>
> “Probe different manifestations of jet-medium …”  since we
> don’t claim to definitively see jet accoplanarity or baryon-meson
> differences yet
>
> Helen
>
> ***********************
> Yale University
> Physics Dept. - Wright Lab.
> PO Box 208120
> New Haven, CT 06520
> 203-432-5831
> ***********************
> she/her/hers
> "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.
> It's about learning how to dance in the rain." - Vivian Greene
>
>> On Mar 24, 2023, at 4:11 PM, Helen Caines <helen.caines AT yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Since time is now short I propose that we go with
>>
>> ""...consistent with angular ordering of the parton shower”
>>
>> In the 3 talks (Youqi, Monika and Joern/Nihar)
>>
>> To be continued after HP, or during for those of us not able to be
>> there:
>>
>> Nihar, its not true that what Youqi is looking at is the first split
>> (that is what Raghav is trying to explain). The Softdrop
>> declustering algorithm is defined to recursively remove soft
>> wide-angle radiation from a jet, so If delta(M) > 0 there has to
>> have been some splitting  BEFORE the one that stop Softdrop and has
>> the Rg that Youqi is looking at.
>>
>> Helen
>>
>> ***********************
>> Yale University
>> Physics Dept. - Wright Lab.
>> PO Box 208120
>> New Haven, CT 06520
>> 203-432-5831
>> ***********************
>> she/her/hers
>> "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.
>> It's about learning how to dance in the rain." - Vivian Greene
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2023, at 3:06 PM, Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Raghav,
>>
>> Thank you for this explanation.
>> I think the picture what you try to say is not what we are measuring
>> here.
>> it may get complicated when we use ratio of dM and M.
>> and also in this measurement we can only say about at the 1st split
>> not subsequent emission.
>>
>> So I am not sure to say
>> SLide:9
>> "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower"
>
> Hence, It could be Ok to say
> "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower at 1st split"
> or
> "...which indicates angular ordering of parton shower"
>
> Let me know what do you think.
>
> Regards
> Nihar
>
> once we use dM/M ratio and also
> On 2023-03-24 18:28, Raghav Kunnawalkam Elayavalli wrote:
>
>> Hi Nihar,
>>
>>> SLide:9
>>> "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower"
>>> Looking at 1st split with grooming we can not say anything about
>>> "angular ordering".
>>> In QCD "angular ordering" it implies "subsequent emissions follow
>>> specific ordering (either space-like or time-like) as a function
>>> of
>>> time".
>>> Here we don't probe subsequent emissions as function of time.
>>> I don't get how do we conclude "confirms angular ordering of
>>> parton
>>> shower".
>>> Please elaborate.
>> These *are* different splittings. Lets take a simple cartoon
>> picture
>> of a jet that looks like this -
>> jet initiating parton - q -> q + g  (split A)
>> q + g + g (split B)
>> q + g + g + g (split C)
>> q + g + g + g + g (split D)
>> if you have SD select a ‘first hardest split’ - sometimes it can
>> give you A, sometimes B, sometimes C etc.. it will give you the
>> split
>> that passed the zcut.
>> if you end up selecting split A as your SD, your dM will be 0 by
>> definition.
>> Now, if you select on jets that have a large dM, you will likely be
>> selecting splits B or C or D. but they will still be ’tagged’ as
>> your ‘first hard softdrop’ split. but technically, they are
>> happening *after* split A yes. so they are later in time.
>> that is why, now if we select jets with greater and greater Rg, we
>> end
>> up seeing a larger dM and consequently, a flatter zg shape.
>> Cheers
>> Raghav
>> **************************************
>> First Name - Raghav
>> Last Name - Kunnawalkam Elayavalli
>> Pronouns - they/them
>> email - raghav.ke AT vanderbilt.edu
>> website - https://www.raghavke.me [1]  [1]
>> RHIC/AGS UEC member
>> Assistant Professor of Physics
>> Stevenson Center 6410
>> Physics & Astronomy Department
>> Vanderbilt University
>> Nashville, TN 37235-1807
>> **************************************
>>
>>> On Mar 24, 2023, at 7:21 AM, Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>> Hello Monika,
>>> Thank you for updating your slides.
>>> I don't have any further comments on all your slides except the
>>> following one.
>>> SLide:9
>>> "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower"
>>> Looking at 1st split with grooming we can not say anything about
>>> "angular ordering".
>>> In QCD "angular ordering" it implies "subsequent emissions follow
>>> specific ordering (either space-like or time-like) as a function
>>> of
>>> time".
>>> Here we don't probe subsequent emissions as function of time.
>>> I don't get how do we conclude "confirms angular ordering of
>>> parton
>>> shower".
>>> Please elaborate.
>>> Thank you
>>> Nihar
>>> On 2023-03-24 17:21, Robotkova, Monika wrote:
>>> Hello Barbara and Nihar,
>>> I updated figures in my slides and also rephrased some texts based
>>> on
>>> internal discussion. New version is uploaded on Drupal page.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Monika
>>> -------------------------
>>> Od: Barbara Trzeciak <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com>
>>> Odesláno: pátek 24. března 2023 2:30
>>> Komu: Robotkova, Monika <robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz>
>>> Kopie: Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>; STAR HardProbes PWG
>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>;
>>> webmaster AT star.bnl.gov <webmaster AT star.bnl.gov>
>>> Předmět: Re: [Star-hp-l] STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova
>>> for
>>> Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review
>>> Hi Monika,
>>> I sign off your talk.
>>> Please just update the plots on slides 8-10 with the final
>>> versions
>>> (check with Youqi) and use better resolution plots.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Barbara
>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:58 AM Robotkova, Monika
>>> <robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz> wrote:
>>> Hello Barbara and Yi,
>>> Thank you very much very much for your comments, I've implemented
>>> them and uploaded v4 on Drupal page. I also updated page with
>>> preliminary plots and preliminary request slides:
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/robotmon/Preliminary-figures-Jet-substructure-observables-mu-and-kt.
>>
>>> Please see my comments below.
>>> Yi:
>>> - p8: I am not sure if it is good to mention "See Youqi's details
>>> at DIS2023".
>>> I decided to leave the text on the slide since also Youqi has
>>> something similar in her slides, but I rephrased it as Barbara
>>> suggested.
>>> Barbara:
>>> - s28: why do you specifically show systematic uncertainties for
>>> z_g ?
>>> It's just an example how our systematics looks like and also the
>>> only systematics plot with preliminary status from previous
>>> presentations.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Monika
>>> -------------------------
>>> Od: Barbara Trzeciak <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com>
>>> Odesláno: středa 22. března 2023 5:12
>>> Komu: Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
>>> Kopie: Robotkova, Monika <robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz>; STAR HardProbes
>>> PWG <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; Nihar Sahoo
>>> <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>;
>>> webmaster AT star.bnl.gov <webmaster AT star.bnl.gov>
>>> Předmět: Re: [Star-hp-l] STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova
>>> for
>>> Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review
>>> Hi Monika,
>>> thanks for the updated slides.
>>> Please see my remaining minor comments below. And please update
>>> your
>>> preliminary request to the drupal page with your preliminary
>>> plots.
>>> - Add the conference logo on the first slide and add the
>>> conference
>>> name to the footer of other slides.
>>> - s8: The last bullet, you can add "\beta_1,2 = 0, z_cut,2 = 0.1"
>>> - s8: See Youqi Song’s ... -> More details in Youqi Song’s ..
>>> - s8, 9, 10: use better resolution plots.
>>> - s28: why do you specifically show systematic uncertainties for
>>> z_g
>>> ?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Barbara
>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 12:48 PM Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi Monika,
>>> Thanks a lot for the updated version. I only have two minor
>>> suggestions on v3 for your consideration.
>>> - p8, p9: the "boxes (yellow, green, and black)" cover the
>>> information on the plot, could you please try thinner line for
>>> them?
>>> - p8: I am not sure if it is good to mention "See Youqi's details
>>> at DIS2023".
>>> Cheers,
>>> Yi
>>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 12:52 PM Robotkova, Monika via Star-hp-l
>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>> Hello Barbara and Nihar,
>>> Thank you very much for your comments, I've implemented them and
>>> uploaded new version on Drupal page. I also made some minor
>>> changes
>>> based on rehearsal at our institution.  Link on my preliminary
>>> plots:
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/robotmon/Preliminary-figures-Jet-substructure-observables-mu-and-kt
>>
>>> and preliminary request slides:
>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/robotmon/Preliminary-figures-request-Multi-dimensional-measurements-jet-substructure-pp-collisi.
>>
>>> You can find my comments below.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Monika
>>> Slide-4:
>>> Right side STAR detector pic, You need to use updated detector
>>> with
>>> forward detectors.
>>> I decided to put there figure from 2012 when data for our analysis
>>> were collected.
>>> From slide7 to 8, it is not clear what is "Rg vs. dM/M at the
>>> first
>>> split" as title on slide-8?
>>> You need to mention before what is dM/M?
>>> People may not remember what is Mg? You need to mention here
>>> again.
>>> I have the cartoon on the right and also the definition of dM, so
>>> I
>>> think it is sufficient to explain it by words. I also added
>>> Collinear drop on this slide.
>>> -------------------------
>>> Od: Star-hp-l <star-hp-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> za uživatele
>>> Barbara Trzeciak via Star-hp-l <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>> Odesláno: pátek 17. března 2023 8:24
>>> Komu: Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>; STAR HardProbes PWG
>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>> Kopie: webmaster AT star.bnl.gov <webmaster AT star.bnl.gov>
>>> Předmět: Re: [Star-hp-l] STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova
>>> for
>>> Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review
>>> Hi Monika,
>>> Thanks for the nice slides with a good story.
>>> My comments are below.
>>> - Add the STAR logo on the title page.
>>> - s4: the STAR figure is a bit small. Try to make the text around
>>> it, or just zoom on the detectors that are of interest here.
>>> - s8: it's nice to advertise Youqi's talk. But it's a different
>>> conference and you present here some of the results.
>>> It would be therefore good to briefly introduce the Collinear
>>> Drop,
>>> you can do this on s8.
>>> - s9: you don't need "and dM/M for different Rg" in the title.
>>> - s11, 13: remove "for two different pT,jet bins" from the title.
>>> - s16: try to increase the size of the plots.
>>> - s17: I suggest having the last two summary statements in
>>> different
>>> colours.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Barbara
>>> On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 1:18 PM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>> Hello Monika,
>>> Please find my comments on your nice presentation slides.
>>> ___________
>>> General comment/suggestion to all HP2023 and DIS2023 presenters:
>>> 1. Please make a Drupal page for all your preliminary plots and
>>> provide
>>> us the link.
>>> If you have already done that, please send us the link.
>>> 2. While preparing your analysis plots for "STAR preliminary"
>>> request,
>>> please follow the guidance 1-7:
>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/pwg/common/Preliminary-figures
>>> It saves our time.
>>> _________
>>> Slide-3:
>>> For groomed mass fraction _expression_, the denominator one can use
>>> "M_g".
>>> Is not that?
>>> If yes, then it would be good this.
>>> Slide-4:
>>> Right side STAR detector pic, You need to use updated detector
>>> with
>>> forward detectors.
>>> Please mention what is "Jet Patch trigger"? Or just remove it.
>>> Slide-5:
>>> Title: "Unfolding" -> "Detector effects correction"
>>> …obtain particle-level distribution -> "…true distribution
>>> from
>>> measured
>>> one"
>>> SLide-8:
>>> From slide7 to 8, it is not clear what is "Rg vs. dM/M at the
>>> first
>>> split" as title on slide-8?
>>> You need to mention before what is dM/M?
>>> People may not remember what is Mg? You need to mention here
>>> again.
>>> Slide-11
>>> Please comment on Slide-3
>>> Cheers
>>> Nihar
>>> On 2023-03-17 16:03, webmaster--- via Star-hp-l wrote:
>>> Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
>>> Monika Robotkova (robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz) has submitted a material
>>> for a
>>> review, please have a look:
>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/63008 [1]
>>> Deadline: 2023-03-26
>>> ---
>>> If you have any problems with the review process, please contact
>>> webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l [2]
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
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>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/63008
>> [2] https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
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