Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

star-hp-l - Re: [[Star-hp-l] ] D0 Meson Tagged Jets at 200 GeV - Paper Draft

star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov

Subject: STAR HardProbes PWG

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
  • To: star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
  • Cc: tc88qy <tc88qy AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>, Sevil Salur <sevil.salur AT gmail.com>, Joern Putschke <joern.putschke AT wayne.edu>
  • Subject: Re: [[Star-hp-l] ] D0 Meson Tagged Jets at 200 GeV - Paper Draft
  • Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 18:25:43 +0530

Hello Diptanil,

I have gone through your AN, PRC and PRL paper drafts.
There are some fine tuning on physics message are needed, PRL abstract word counts and Title need a round of discussion, that, I think in GPC, will be discussed certainly.

I find these are in good shape and ready for GPC formation.
I sign off.

If Qian and Isaac approve then we can request for the GPC formation.

Best
Nihar

On 2024-12-01 22:55, Diptanil Roy wrote:
Hi everyone,

The updated version of the AN is here:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/AnalysisNote_8.pdf
The responses are here:
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Responses_Isaac_Qian.pdf

The webpage is updated with the same.

Thanks

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 8:14 AM Diptanil Roy <roydiptanil AT gmail.com>
wrote:

Dear Issac and Qian,

Thank you for your detailed comments on the AN. Please find my
replies inline below:

P.S. Seems like Drupal is down (including all STAR webpages), so I
am attaching the latest version of the AN to the next email. I will
update the webpage when drupal is available again.

Issac's comments:

==============================================================================================================================

79. How was 600 MeV chosen for the D0 daughters?

This is the cut that was chosen for the D0 spectra and the D0 v2
analyses. I am not entirely sure if this cut was picked after an
analysis of the S/B ratio or in an ad-hoc way, but the effect of
this high pt cut for the D0 daughter candidates (as opposed to say
0.2 or 0.3 GeV/c) is to suppress the combinatorial background in the
low pt region for the KPi pairs.

83. What is the nhitsdEdx cut used?

None, again this is for consistency with the D0 spectra and the D0
v2 analyses. I checked both the ANs along with the codes available
with the paper submissions in CVS. Again, the nHitsFit > 20 is a
pretty strict cut, so a separate nHitsdEdx cut might not be
essential.

139. Sorry, just to make sure I understand, do you mean "all the
jet constituents" except the D0 candidate, or really "all" jet
constituents? I'm not sure why we wouldn't assign the proper mass
in a situation where we're fairly sure of that particle's
identity.

First reason is that using the mass of the D0 instead of pi0 doesn't
affect any of the quantities we are measuring. The comparison for
PYTHIA jets for jet pT is below.
Second reason is that in the hadronic correction, we always remove
the energy contribution of the tracks by assuming pion mass. To keep
things consistent, I chose to use the pi0 mass.

In my opinion, the only quantity that should be affected by this
should be the jet mass. If someone looks at that in the future, it
might be prudent to treat the mass in a better way.

Fig. 1.5. I'm a little surprised that the weights are quite this
negative in the background regions. But I guess this is due to a
negative covariance and may not be a problem as long as the sum of
sWeights in a given control variable bin is non-negative? Are
there any such bins in the analysis where the sum is negative?

There aren't any negative bins for D0 pT, however, if we plot a 2D
distribution of D0 Jet pT and Z and fill the entries with these
sWeights, there could be some bins where the count is negative. I
have chosen the binnings such that there are as few of these bins as
possible, however when they exist, the count is set to zero, and the
error is set to the actual error of the bin.

168. Is the reason there is any discrepancy at all entirely due to
sPlot? Or are there any other differences (e.g. selection
criteria, binning, failed jobs, different random seed, etc.)?

Most of the above. The selection criteria is similar, however the
fitting method in sPlot is an unbinned maximum likelihood fit (as
opposed to binned fits for the old analyses), some of the files used
in 2018 are no longer available in the distributed disks etc.

189. When you apply the hadronic correction, have the K and pi
already been removed from consideration so that their track pTs
are not subtracted from the tower ETs, or do you include them for
this correction and remove them later? I would assume the latter
except you've already mentioned in the text that they are removed.

Yes, the latter is true. I account for the K pi energy that is
deposited on the towers and perform hadronic correction on them in
the same way as I do for all other tracks.

Fig. 1.10. I can understand that because sequential recombination
algorithms in general don't have to have an exact cone shape at
the jet radius (although anti-kT is fairly circular), you could
technically get D0s beyond DeltaR = R_jet. But DeltaR = 0.6 would
be pretty surprising to me. Or do the entries in the bin stop at
just a hair past 0.4, and the bin is just wider than necessary?

It's the latter, the bin is quite large at the end, and is removed
after unfolding anyway.

Figs. 1.10 - 1.12. I'm a bit surprised the z_jet^uncorrected plots
look identical between Figs. 1.11 and 1.10. Looking at the 40-80%
distributions as an example, I'm not able to spot the difference.
I would have thought in the tails, either positive or negative,
there should be some difference, despite the much lower counts of
D0jets with D0 pT > 5 GeV, since the D0 pT being larger should
contribute to a larger z. I see from Fig. 1.12 that actually the
tails drop off much more dramatically for the larger D0 pT so I
guess my intuition was wrong. Should I think of this as being
caused by the fact that jets with a large pT D0 are much less
likely to be background jets, which decreases counts both for
negative and large-positive z?

Yeah, I needed to do a double-take on this as well. First thing is
we should probably not read too much into trends in uncorrected z
plots. There's a lot of pT smearing, so the trends are not trivial
to begin with. But even if we just look at the jet pt distribution
for D0 pT [1-5], [5-10] and [1-10] together (plot below), we can see
the 3 orders of magnitude difference between D0 pT [1-5] and [5-10]
GeV (1st panel). The 2nd panel is just the ratio ([1-5] +
[5-10])/[1-10] spectra, and is 1 as expected.

Corollary 1: is the jet pT fixed for the D0 z plot, or is it
integrated over jet pT? [Whatever the answer, it would be good to
specify somewhere in the analysis note, similarly for the DeltaR
as well].

These are all the D0 jets, no cuts on the jet pT. When I unfold, I
unfold over the whole jet pt range. For example, for D0 pT [1-10]
GeV, the jet pT can physically take values above 1 GeV. So, I unfold
the whole spectra from pT,Jet > 1 GeV, and then quote the final
spectrum from 5 - 20 GeV only. I added a note to clarify this in the
AN (L206 - 208).

Corollary 2: is there any requirement on number of jet
constituents? Is it possible to have a jet that is just the D0 if
it passes all other requirements? I think we talked about this
during a PWG meeting and you mentioned that these one-particle
jets were included (so there's a separate category included in the
0.9 - 1 z bin which are identically 1.0) [I just read the paper
and see this is the case]. Have you checked the effect that it has
on the results (pT, z, DeltaR) to disallow these jets?

There is no requirement on the number of jet constituents. You
recall correctly that I included an overflow bin (z in [1-1.1]) in
an iteration, and did the unfolding accordingly and the results of
the unfolding were unchanged. I have not removed jets like these
completely, because I wasn't sure how to account for the bias
introduced in the unfolding due to removing the single particle
jets. Also, another analysis of fragmentation function for J/psi
from CMS here [1] also kept the single particle jets in the mix by
setting z = 1 to z = 0.999 with a converged unfolding, so we used
the same in this analysis.

Fig. 1.14. I think I understand why the distribution in raw z is
bimodal for the 40-80% centrality selection for the previous
plots, but do you have a good intuition for why it isn't
continuous in the 10-40% case for R = 0.2? And where are the bins
just below 0 for the 40-80%?

I am not sure if I follow the statement about discontinuity for
10-40 % alone. If you mean the non-differentiable curve around 0,
that's true for the z distributions in all centralities. One of the
bins is z in [-0.5, 0] and the other is z in [0, 0.5]. These have
contributions from different jets. These have contributions from
different jets.

* z in [-0.5, 0] comes from jets where too much energy had been
removed from the jets using the area based background subtraction
resulting in corrected pT,Jet around the left tails of the pT,Jet
distributions.
* Accordingly, z in [0., 0.5] comes from jets where not a lot of
energy had been removed from the jets using the area based
background subtraction resulting in corrected pT,Jet around the
right tails of the pT,Jet distributions.

For the bin below 0 for the 40-80 %, the count was 0 for those bins
from the sPlot method.

275. When you say "already corrected for the D0 reconstruction
efficiency at this stage" do you mean there is a step between the
previous and this one of applying D0 efficiency?

I mean, in the measured data, the uncorrected spectra are "already
corrected for the D0 reconstruction efficiency ...". So, when we
unfold, this is not an effect we should take into consideration.
Therefore, we make sure that every D0 generated in PYTHIA at the
particle level is available for analysis in the detector level. Of
course, we can not do that by requiring this condition on the
reconstructed event for GEANT (i.e. the kaon and pion from D0 decay
must be matched to two distinct reconstructed tracks in the detector
level, this introduces unnecessary bias in the sample which is not
well-explained, and also would also be a waste of precious compute).
Therefore, we take the momentum resolution of the kaon pion tracks
from simulation and always reconstruct the D0 daughters in the
detector level, irrespective of the presence of one or both of the
daughter tracks (which are discarded).

278. I'm a little confused -- you say the D0 is reconstructed at
detector-level but the daughters are not? And then you use
momentum resolution to reconstruct it? Can you clarify what you
mean here?

Hopefully, the last answer cleared this one up. The way we ensure
the D0 is always present at the reconstructed level is by smearing
the particle level kaon and pion daughters from PYTHIA with the
momentum resolution and using those smeared tracks to reconstruct
the D0. Simply "triggering" on D0 events which eventually have a
reconstructed D0 would not be ideal for reasons mentioned above.

Fig. 1.20 - 1.22. It would be great if the y-axis of the ratio
plots could be zoomed in a bit so any potential shapes could be
observed. Something like 0.5 - 1.5 should work in all cases given
how excellent the agreement is.

Done. Replaced the plots with the recommended axis limits in the AN
now. (Pg 31 - 33)

374. Are fakes also weighted by this factor? What, if anything, is
done for misses?

The way I have set up the unfolding is to include all jets
reconstructed with a D0 inside in the response matrix, so there are
no fakes due to the jet pT. This is the reason for such wide
acceptance ranges in the uncorrected jet pt plots (Figs 1.10-1.14).
Fakes can also happen if a D0 jet is inside the pseudorapidity
acceptance range in the detector level but is outside in the
particle level. In the sample we have, such cases are almost
negligible (mostly 0 for all cases), hence these are ignored.
Misses can happen because a particle level D0 jet with the
pseudorapidity acceptance range is reconstructed as a detector level
jet outside the pseudorapidity acceptance range. In such cases, the
weight factors (dependent only on pT and z) are used to fill the
response matrix.

390. Can this statement be quantified somehow? Can you show the
correlations between the three observables: pT, z, and DeltaR for
example? Or show the 3D unfolding result even though statistics
are poor? Or some other way.

So, the 3D unfolding results do not converge at all for this
analysis, ergo it's quite difficult to do that. However, we do still
unfold with pT vs DeltaR distribution after reweighting by the
data-driven fragmentation function. The variation due to this is
about 2-3 % in most cases (see Fig. 1.36, 1.45) for pT,D < 5 GeV/c
and about 10 % (see Fig. 1.51) for pT,D > 5 GeV/c. This is probably
the best way to show the effect of the prior variation on the radial
profile.

415. Hijing -> Pythia? Or is Hijing used somehow?

No, this is Hijing used by the D0 spectra analysis only. They used a
data-driven simulation method and also a full sample of HIJING, and
this uncertainty is to deal with the differences between the two.
See Fig. 81 here [2] along with the associated text.

431. "DCA < 3 cm", yes? 0.2 cm seems like a fairly minimal
variation. Do statistics really significantly suffer for e.g. a 2
cm cut as a variation?

Yes, 0.2 cm is small, and I had checked with 2 cm as well for
QM2023. The statistics suffer with a cut of 2 cm for the peripheral
cases more than most, however the results were consistent. I can
redo this in the background with the latest updates to the code to
show the effect of reducing DCA to 2 cm.

462. You say that only the uncertainty on R1 is quoted but also
say the uncertainty is given by the second term on the RHS of eq.
1.7. How are these both true?

The statistical uncertainty % is quoted from R1 only. The 2nd term
on the RHS of eq. 1.7 is the uncertainty due to a variation of the
prior. This is systematic in nature and hence is quoted as such.

Fig. 1.32.
This probably demonstrates that I'm not as familiar as I should be
with the previous D0 analysis, but can you explain why you have
uncertainties related both to D0 reconstruction efficiency with
and without vertex correction?
When you say "peripheral (right)", you actually mean "bottom" in
this case, right? Since the plot has wrapped to the next row. Just
want to make sure I'm not mixing up midcentral and peripheral.

This is just to differentiate the uncertainty from the topological
cuts vs that from the vertex correction part. These are both derived
from the D0 spectra analysis. And yes, peripheral (right) is
actually "bottom". I have updated the captions now.

Fig. 1.65. Shouldn't the full jet pT spectrum be harder than the
charged jet spectrum? It looks like it is until the last one or
two bins in all cases, which is a bit odd to me.

There is an additional cut on the D0 pT of 1-10 GeV/c which means
the total number of charged jets in the pT,Jet range (3-20) GeV is
more or less consistent with the total number of full jets in the
pT,Jet range (5-20) GeV. Even with that, the full jets spectrum is
harder in all cases other than the last bin for central events.

Qian's comments

==============================================================================================================================

1. It don’t show a discussion of sWeight’s error bar and how
the error
bars propagated in your final results?

Since the sWeights are just entered into the histograms as weights,
they are propagated as Poisson errors i.e error of a bin = sqrt(sum
of all weights in that bin). In the trivial case where all the
weights are 1, this is the sqrt(n) error. This is handled by ROOT
histograms directly when sumw2 is called before filling histograms,
hence I didn't add a separate discussion.
2. It is not clear to me how did you avoid the double count for the
towers in Jet reconstruction part. How did you carry out the
hadronic
correction?

Each track is matched to a tower (or to a nearest tower) by the
track-tower matching algorithm in the event maker. I calculate the
energy contribution of all the matched tracks on to a specific tower
by assuming the tracks are all pions and subtracting the energy from
the tower's recorded energy.

I have now included this description in the AN (L191).

3. Jet Pt with background correction will have some negative value.
Did
you also included this part in your z and delta R calcuation?

Yes, z is calculated with the corrected jet pt, that's why z takes
unphysical negative values. delta R is not directly dependent on jet
pt, however, there can be an implicit dependence. Hence, 2D
unfolding is used to correct (jet pt, z) and (jet pt, delta R).

4. For the data-driven unfolding method, do you have a plot of proof
of
convergence for this method?

The trivial closures still hold for the data-driven unfolding
method. Since they are repetitive, I did not include them in the AN.
Beyond that, it is just a choice of prior we are making.

Thank you again for the detailed questions.

On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 9:01 PM tc88qy <tc88qy AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
wrote:

Hi Neil and PAs,

Nice work. Since the D0 meson reconstruction is identical to
STAR
published paper. I assumed this part should be ok.
I have few comments on your analysis note, please find below:
1. It don’t show a discussion of sWeight’s error bar and how
the error
bars propagated in your final results?
2. It is not clear to me how did you avoid the double count for
the
towers in Jet reconstruction part. How did you carry out the
hadronic
correction?
3. Jet Pt with background correction will have some negative
value. Did
you also included this part in your z and delta R calcuation?
4. For the data-driven unfolding method, do you have a plot of
proof of
convergence for this method?

Qian Yang

On 2024-11-28 06:05, Mooney, Isaac wrote:
Hi Neil and PAs,

For now I’m focusing my comments on the analysis note (see
below),
since I will be the PWG rep for this analysis and can give
detailed
comments on the paper after GPC formation. Hopefully this saves
a bit
of time getting the ball rolling due to Neil’s time
constraints. I
did do a quick read-through of the short paper as well just to
make
sure that it’s acceptable for GPC formation. I had some
comments,
but nothing preventing it moving to the next step, so I’ll
hold off
for now until I do a more detailed read-through at that time.
We’ll
see if Qian or Nihar have any major comments, but mine on the
analysis
note can be addressed in parallel with GPC formation which I
think the
analysis is ready for.

Thanks, and congratulations on advancing this high-quality
analysis to
this stage,
Isaac

79. How was 600 MeV chosen for the D0 daughters?

83. What is the nhitsdEdx cut used?

139. Sorry, just to make sure I understand, do you mean "all the
jet
constituents" except the D0 candidate, or really "all" jet
constituents? I'm not sure why we wouldn't assign the proper
mass in a
situation where we're fairly sure of that particle's identity.

Fig. 1.5. I'm a little surprised that the weights are quite this
negative in the background regions. But I guess this is due to a
negative covariance and may not be a problem as long as the sum
of
sWeights in a given control variable bin is non-negative? Are
there
any such bins in the analysis where the sum is negative?

168. Is the reason there is any discrepancy at all entirely due
to
sPlot? Or are there any other differences (e.g. selection
criteria,
binning, failed jobs, different random seed, etc.)?

189. When you apply the hadronic correction, have the K and pi
already
been removed from consideration so that their track pTs are not
subtracted from the tower ETs, or do you include them for this
correction and remove them later? I would assume the latter
except
you've already mentioned in the text that they are removed.

Fig. 1.10. I can understand that because sequential
recombination
algorithms in general don't have to have an exact cone shape at
the
jet radius (although anti-kT is fairly circular), you could
technically get D0s beyond DeltaR = R_jet. But DeltaR = 0.6
would be
pretty surprising to me. Or do the entries in the bin stop at
just a
hair past 0.4, and the bin is just wider than necessary?

Figs. 1.10 - 1.12. I'm a bit surprised the z_jet^uncorrected
plots
look identical between Figs. 1.11 and 1.10. Looking at the
40-80%
distributions as an example, I'm not able to spot the
difference. I
would have thought in the tails, either positive or negative,
there
should be some difference, despite the much lower counts of
D0jets
with D0 pT > 5 GeV, since the D0 pT being larger should
contribute to
a larger z. I see from Fig. 1.12 that actually the tails drop
off much
more dramatically for the larger D0 pT so I guess my intuition
was
wrong. Should I think of this as being caused by the fact that
jets
with a large pT D0 are much less likely to be background jets,
which
decreases counts both for negative and large-positive z?
Corollary 1: is the jet pT fixed for the D0 z plot, or is it
integrated over jet pT? [Whatever the answer, it would be good
to
specify somewhere in the analysis note, similarly for the DeltaR
as
well].
Corollary 2: is there any requirement on number of jet
constituents?
Is it possible to have a jet that is just the D0 if it passes
all
other requirements? I think we talked about this during a PWG
meeting
and you mentioned that these one-particle jets were included (so
there's a separate category included in the 0.9 - 1 z bin which
are
identically 1.0) [I just read the paper and see this is the
case].
Have you checked the effect that it has on the results (pT, z,
DeltaR)
to disallow these jets?

Fig. 1.14. I think I understand why the distribution in raw z is
bimodal for the 40-80% centrality selection for the previous
plots,
but do you have a good intuition for why it isn't continuous in
the
10-40% case for R = 0.2? And where are the bins just below 0 for
the
40-80%?

275. When you say "already corrected for the D0 reconstruction
efficiency at this stage" do you mean there is a step between
the
previous and this one of applying D0 efficiency?

278. I'm a little confused -- you say the D0 is reconstructed at
detector-level but the daughters are not? And then you use
momentum
resolution to reconstruct it? Can you clarify what you mean
here?

Fig. 1.20 - 1.22. It would be great if the y-axis of the ratio
plots
could be zoomed in a bit so any potential shapes could be
observed.
Something like 0.5 - 1.5 should work in all cases given how
excellent
the agreement is.

374. Are fakes also weighted by this factor? What, if anything,
is
done for misses?

390. Can this statement be quantified somehow? Can you show the
correlations between the three observables: pT, z, and DeltaR
for
example? Or show the 3D unfolding result even though statistics
are
poor? Or some other way.

415. Hijing -> Pythia? Or is Hijing used somehow?

431. "DCA < 3 cm", yes? 0.2 cm seems like a fairly minimal
variation.
Do statistics really significantly suffer for e.g. a 2 cm cut as
a
variation?

462. You say that only the uncertainty on R1 is quoted but also
say
the uncertainty is given by the second term on the RHS of eq.
1.7. How
are these both true?

Fig. 1.32.
This probably demonstrates that I'm not as familiar as I should
be
with the previous D0 analysis, but can you explain why you have
uncertainties related both to D0 reconstruction efficiency with
and
without vertex correction?
When you say "peripheral (right)", you actually mean "bottom" in
this
case, right? Since the plot has wrapped to the next row. Just
want to
make sure I'm not mixing up midcentral and peripheral.

Fig. 1.65. Shouldn't the full jet pT spectrum be harder than the
charged jet spectrum? It looks like it is until the last one or
two
bins in all cases, which is a bit odd to me.

On Nov 9, 2024, at 14:49, Diptanil Roy <roydiptanil AT gmail.com>
wrote:

Dear conveners and HP-pwg,

We now have a proposed version of the STAR D0 Meson Tagged Jets
paper drafts available. The links for the paper drafts,
analysis
notes, and the paper webpage are below. We request to form a
GPC to
get this work over the line.

Please send your comments and feedback.

Paper Drafts

Short Paper: Link [1]
Long Paper: Link [2]

Analysis Note Link [3]

Paper Webpage Link [4]

PWGC Preview Link [5]

Thank you to everyone who helped with this analysis since the
beginning.

--

~ Neil on behalf of the PAs (Neil, Matt, Sevil, Joern)



Links:
------
[1] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PRL_v1.pdf
[2] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PRC_v1.pdf
[3]
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/AnalysisNote_6.pdf
[4]



https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/droy1/D0-Meson-Tagged-Jets-Au-Au-collisions-200-GeV
[5]



https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/D0Jets_Diptanil_PWGCPreview.pdf

--

~ Neil

--

~ Neil

Links:
------
[1] https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://arxiv.org/pdf/2106.13235__;!!P4SdNyxKAPE!A1lFRo0SiedhMGb3uxs9C-9jFJFojqEjnKxKzZNADDQceSyzl3n_rXZjStzbEftZCFu0J41aF0pPO9tvymR3k-iJTqk$
[2] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/2018_1109_D0spectra_Note.pdf

Attachment: Screenshot 2024-12-01 at 5.21.08 AM.png
Description: PNG image

Attachment: Screenshot 2024-12-01 at 7.43.30 AM.png
Description: PNG image

Attachment: image.png
Description: PNG image




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page