NPPS Leadership Team

[Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov>]

:) thanks

I like Brett’s argument maybe this should be made more explicit on the slides.

Becuase indeed AI./ML is something which is done since quite some time it was not so called out.

But the BNL HEP expertise about the systems/analysis it is applied to is unique.

I would drive this point home.

Cheers elke

On Sep 28, 2021, at 17:18, Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Elke, 

HEP-EIC should be a strong axis of collaboration in AI/ML among much else (how could they not fund Cognizant DAQs!), your input is highly appreciated. 

I expect you are right about lack of uniqueness but I expect also the same could be said of AI/ML activities elsewhere. I think one answer could be along the lines Brett et al were arguing. AI/ML as a tool applied on the foundation of domain knowledge when and where it adds unique value over conventional approaches. So the AI/ML may not be particularly unique but the domain knowledge may be.
   Torre

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 4:57 PM Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov> wrote:

Dear Torre, All,

as I’m not HEP, I should most likely not make a lot of comments, so here only a very high level observation.

I like there are nice examples for things BNL is working on and will work on, 

but if I would be DOE, and I get lately trained a lot to think like them, I would ask myself why BNL.

Some of these things can be done at other places as in the BNL-HEP group and are done at other places. 

So I think it needs a bit more why BNL is unique to do this AI/ML applications.

Cheers elke

On Sep 28, 2021, at 12:40, Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com> wrote:

Should have included Anže in this thread, sorry!

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:34 AM Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot for the good input, in-progress slides are here

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1v-1yUT2cw7LZux_H0U8EO3cTk1bQPXwa5VdE2gVLpks/edit?usp=sharing

Help particularly on adding figures for some color will be much appreciated!

  Torre

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 11:36 AM Lin, Meifeng via Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Hi Torre,

 

I also think that having a “BNL AI/ML Strategy” slide would be nice, and you can mention how the BNL HEP AI/ML strategy would fit into the lab-wide strategy.

 

I second Michael’s comment on the unfunded LDRDs, especially if the slides will feed into future HEP funding calls. It is important to make the HEP office aware of our directions.  

 

I also made some comments directly on the slides.

 

Meifeng

 

-- 
Meifeng Lin, Ph.D.

Group Leader, High Performance Computing

Computational Science Initiative
Brookhaven National Laboratory

Email: mlin AT bnl.gov

https://www.bnl.gov/staff/mlin

 

 

 

From: Alexei Klimentov <alexei.klimentov AT cern.ch>
Date: Friday, September 24, 2021 at 3:03 AM
To: Michael Begel <mbegel AT gmail.com>
Cc: Viren, Brett <bviren AT bnl.gov>, Alexander, Francis <falexander AT bnl.gov>, Lin, Meifeng <mlin AT bnl.gov>, Torre Wenaus via Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov>, Aschenauer, Elke <elke AT bnl.gov>, Pleier, Marc-Andre <mpleier AT bnl.gov>
Subject: Re: [Phys-npps-mgmt-l] BNL HEP AI/ML vision draft for your comments

Hi Torre,

 

 I agree with Brett that ’BNL strategy’ slide/bullets will be useful, also you can add ML/AL tools for a mono-H(bb)-MET in ATLAS, it is in production (on slide 4)

 

Cheers, Alexei 

On Sep 23, 2021, at 7:48 PM, Michael Begel via Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

 

I agree with Brett. This doesn't come across as overarching "strategy." Especially BNL leadership being 5-10 years out. Perhaps this should be compressed: 1, 2-3, 4-5?

 

FYI: the Cognizent DAQ LDRD wasn't funded. I don't know if the others were funded or not. But I'd still leave this in the document as it illustrates our thinking.

 

Michael Begel

 

 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 9:55 AM Brett Viren <bv AT bnl.gov> wrote:

Hi Torre,

This is perhaps a bad idea given the reality of slide 3 but....

Is it beneficial to express some "BNL AI/ML strategy"?  Especially if it
sets us apart from the unwashed masses?

It is widely recognized (and seems to be a recent trending Internet
meme) that one should first exhaust "conventional" ways to extract
information from data before applying AI/ML.  Use accrued domain
knowledge to wisely guide application of AI/ML.

This is a strategy our group has adhered to strongly for the LArTPC work
while our other neutrino LArTPC AI/ML friends prefer to throw data at
the GPU and see what slides off.

I feel it is the right strategy, but it goes against funding trends
where real thinking is being discounted in favor of the artificial type.

So, again, maybe a bad suggestion....


Otherwise, I think the slides are good.

-Brett.

Torre Wenaus via Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
writes:

> Hi all,
>
> The next monthly discussion between DOE HEP and BNL HEP on Oct 1 will address AI/ML. I’ll give a short talk, along the
> lines of recent 5min ones at the Science Council and AI/ML working group kickoff, but a bit longer so some time for
> examples to flesh out the generic statements. The working group kickoff version of the slides is at 
>
>    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/15ElWnNopunK86wijlWd78yNjWfJDw-ckX_EEoaTUuAA/edit#slide=id.geaae160bb5_0_0 
>
> (The DOE talk will for sure not have slide 3.)
>
> The basis for the DOE slides will be an update of a draft BNL HEP AI/ML vision 2-pager I wrote a few months ago at
> Dmitri’s request, the main difference in the update being the incorporation of examples.
>
> Here is the updated version, your comments/corrections (by the end of the week if you can!) would be much appreciated.
>
>   https://docs.google.com/document/d/11fnQxO4Az23ADQQBhIXv2B-fxOhzOLunj4WnXtz3ioE/edit?usp=sharing 
>
>   Torre
>
> --
> -- Torre Wenaus, BNL NPPS Group, ATLAS Experiment
> -- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com
> -- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square
> _______________________________________________
> Phys-npps-mgmt-l mailing list
> Phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov
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-- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com

-- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square

--

-- Torre Wenaus, BNL NPPS Group, ATLAS Experiment

-- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com

-- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square

Note: Please do not feel obligated to respond to this message outside of your work hours.

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 /    '. |        Elke-Caroline Aschenauer  (she/her/hers)      =

 |       `,                                                      -

  \,_  `-/        Brookhaven National Lab                         +

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,&&&&&&&&&&;      20 Pennsylvania Avenue                 11778       +

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|  |       :_) _  Tel.:  001-631-344-4769   Tel.:   +1-631-569-4290    -

|  |       ;--' |                           Cell-USA:  +1-757-2565224   +

'--'   `-.--.   |                           Cell-Europe: +49152220025211 =

   \_    |  |—‘                                                           -

     `-._\__/     Mail: elke AT bnl.gov        elke.caroline AT me.com           +

            +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=

--

-- Torre Wenaus, BNL NPPS Group, ATLAS Experiment

-- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com

-- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square

Note: Please do not feel obligated to respond to this message outside of your work hours.

 ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-

  )    `\                                                      +

 /    '. |        Elke-Caroline Aschenauer  (she/her/hers)      =

 |       `,                                                      -

  \,_  `-/        Brookhaven National Lab                         +

  ,&&&&&V         Physics Dept.,            25 Corona Road         =

 ,&&&&&&&&:       Bldg. 510 /2-195          Rocky Point, NY,        -

,&&&&&&&&&&;      20 Pennsylvania Avenue                 11778       +

|  |&&&&&&&;\     Upton, NY 11973                                     =

|  |       :_) _  Tel.:  001-631-344-4769   Tel.:   +1-631-569-4290    -

|  |       ;--' |                           Cell-USA:  +1-757-2565224   +

'--'   `-.--.   |                           Cell-Europe: +49152220025211 =

   \_    |  |—‘                                                           -

     `-._\__/     Mail: elke AT bnl.gov        elke.caroline AT me.com           +

            +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=

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