sPHENIX tracking discussion

[John Haggerty <haggerty AT bnl.gov>]

Itaru,

Yes, you're right, there is a mechanical engineering component that 
we'll have to get you help for here at BNL, but we're going to need to 
provide him or her with not only the existing drawings but guidance 
about what is actually possible to do in reconfiguring the pixels, for 
example, what kind of cable extensions are workable, where we can 
relocate electronics, and so on.  It seems to me that ideally, one would 
try to set up a ladder on the bench with something like the 
configuration needed in sPHENIX to make certain that the putative 
rearrangement would actually work before we engineered a final design.

There may be other or better ways to proceed, but we definitely have to 
start figuring out exactly what we want to do, and then try to create a 
team of experts who can help design and eventually accomplish it.

This would be a good topic for the tracking meeting on Friday; 
unfortunately, I have been unable to attend the last few of these, and 
I'm going to miss Friday's meeting as well, although the training I'm 
missing it for will allow me to resuscitate anyone who develops heart 
failure from thinking about it.  I will try to attend these meetings in 
the future.

On 11/17/15 12:10 AM, Itaru Nakagawa wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>   Regarding reconfiguring pixel sensors, this job is mostly engineering.
> As you guys familiar, we don't have any mechanical engineers employed
> in RIKEN. This is quite inefficient job for us to pursue.
> As the matter of fact that the last cost and schedule reviewers recommended
> that pixel reconfiguration should be in the scope of the sPHENIX project,
> we strongly believe that this is the job that BNL should take a
> responsibility.
> We of cause are still responsible to make ladders available.
>
> Regards,
> -itaru
>
>
>
>
> On 2015/11/14 0:45, John Haggerty wrote:
> > Itaru,
> >
> > No, certainly nobody would suggest that you spend any time evaluating
> > MAPS detectors, but starting from the pixels, we need to know soon is
> > how feasible *is* the reconfiguration of pixels?  Specifically, we need
> > to be able to show:
> >
> > 1- A mechanical design that shows all the available ladders configured
> > into a 2*pi detector
> >
> > 2- We need to know how the electronics will be configured to read it
> > out--where will it go?  Are there problems with a new configuration of
> > the readout electronics (longer cables leading to reduced performance,
> > noise pickup, or crosstalk)?
> >
> > 3- Is the cabling feasible?  Do cables come out both ends?
> >
> > 4- How is the detector supported, inserted, and removed?
> >
> > And, of course, last, but not least, how much does it all cost, and how
> > long does it take?
> >
> > Item #1, 3,  and 4 probably takes a mechanical designer; we may have to
> > work with you to provide such a person, although you may be able to do
> > it yourself, I'm not sure what the state of the mechanical model is.  I
> > would think that #2 would be best addressed by bench tests on a spare
> > ladder.  And when we know those things, then we can feed the real pixels
> > back to Tony so we can see how it performs.
> >
> > Of course, the outer layers need the same treatment, or more, since
> > there are many new ideas and components, but it seems to me we need to
> > develop more complete answers to these questions for the pixels straight
> > away.
> >
> > On 11/12/15 11:53 PM, Itaru Nakagawa wrote:
> > > Hi Tony,
> > >
> > >    OK.
> > >
> > > -itaru
> > >
> > > On 2015/11/12 23:49, Frawley, Anthony wrote:
> > > > Dear Itaru,
> > > >
> > > > We have a group (LANL) who has a strong interest in a MAPS inner
> > > > tracker, so this is of considerable interest to them.
> > > >
> > > > There is no suggestion that you guys should spend time studying a MAPS
> > > > tracker.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > *From:* Itaru Nakagawa [itaru AT bnl.gov]
> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 10:09 PM
> > > > *To:* Frawley, Anthony; sphenix-tracking-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Sphenix-tracking-l] sPHENIX tracking meeting next week
> > > >
> > > > Hi Tony,
> > > >
> > > >    I don't think we (RIKEN group) are the one who look into the MAPs
> > > > option by
> > > > spending our limited man power to do the study at the cost of slowing
> > > > down
> > > > the development of the silicon strip. However,  I am open to *listen*
> > > > to the
> > > > idea to make the outer tracker with MAPS from anybody who comes up
> > > > with the
> > > > 1) cost  and 2) schedule estimate in the level of reality of what we
> > > > have
> > > > for the silicon strip solution.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > -itaru
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2015/11/12 15:25, Frawley, Anthony wrote:
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > First, a reminder that the next sPHENIX tracking meeting will be
> > > > > November 20 (not tomorrow!).
> > > > >
> > > > > For our meeting on November 20, we have arranged for Luciano Musa to
> > > > > call into the meeting at 9:00 am to give us a presentation about what
> > > > > would be involved for us to implement MAPS pixels in a tracker for
> > > > > PHENIX. This follows up on discussions with Leo Greiner in Santa Fe,
> > > > > where he talked about some cost comparisons of strips and MAPS pixels
> > > > > indicating that they would have similar cost.
> > > > >
> > > > > In addition to the discussion with Luciano, which should be quite
> > > > > interesting, I will also be soliciting presentations from experts on
> > > > > all four tracking options.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Tony
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > >
> > >
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--
John Haggerty
email: haggerty AT bnl.gov
cell: 631 741 3358