STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG

["Robertson, Charles William" <rober558 AT purdue.edu>]

Hello Diyu,

Yes, while we still think the background should be nearly 1/3, we are also going to study this with a toy model.

-CW

---

From: dshen <dshen AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 11:58 PM
To: Robertson, Charles William <rober558 AT purdue.edu>
Cc: STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed. 9:30 AM EDT

 

---- External Email: Use caution with attachments, links, or sharing data ----


Hi CW,

Thanks for your reply.
I reviewed my formula again, and I can understand your fitting function
now.
Indeed, besides the assumption of acceptance effect being identical
between signal and background, it seems there is another underlying
assumption that the background in perfect acceptance has <.> true-bkg =
1/3. See details in
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/invMass4ml_0.pdf

This is also not guaranteed because primordial particles are not
isotropic, as seen in dN/dEta distribution or flow. The combinations of
such particles very likely to have non-uniform distribution and thus
deviate from 1/3.

Thanks,
Diyu



On 2023-04-10 22:17, Robertson, Charles William wrote:
> Hey Diyu,
>
>  Instead of "F(m) * (<.> real / <.> idea-bkg) = <.> real / <.> mix" we
> mean:
>
>  F(m) * (<.> real / <.> real-bkg) = <.> real / <.> mix
>
>  Both <.> real and <.> real-bkg are from a real event and are affected
> by efficiency/acceptance. <.> real-bkg may not be 1/3 because of these
> effects.
>  We are saying that they are both affected by efficiency/acceptance in
> nearly the same way, so that these effects cancel in the ratio. In
> other words we’re assuming real/real-bkg = true/true-bkg. We’ll
> definitely check this with simulations, on our todo list.
>
>  Then, F(m) is an overall factor on this ratio which accounts for the
> difference between <.> real-bkg and <.> mix.
>
>  -CW
>
> -------------------------
>
> From: dshen <dshen AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
> Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2023 10:10 AM
> To: dshen <dshen AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>; STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity
> PWG <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> Cc: Robertson, Charles William <rober558 AT purdue.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed. 9:30
> AM EDT
>
> ---- External Email: Use caution with attachments, links, or sharing
> data ----
>
> Hi CW,
>
> I think I kind of understand what you did now.
> The <.> obs you mean with prefect acceptance, and you construct
> F(m) * (<.> real / <.> idea-bkg) = <.> real / <.> mix
> The <.> idea-bkg in the case of perfect acceptance should be 1/3.
> Is it right?
>
> Thanks,
> Diyu
>
> On 2023-04-08 11:34, dshen via Star-fcv-l wrote:
>> Hi CW,
>>
>> I am confused by <.> real, does it stand for real event or perfect
>> acceptance? In order to keep us on the same page, I propose to use
>> "<.> real" to denote real event and "<.> true" to denote perfect
>> acceptance.
>>
>> Let me assume your <.> real means perfect acceptance according to
> the
>> context, so
>> "<. > real phi / <.> real bkg = <.> obs phi / <.>obs bkgd"
>> means your are assuming the F(m) for phi meson and background pairs
>> are the same, but it may not be true because the kinematics could be
>> different between phi and background.
>>
>> Even if you have strict control on the kinematics, I still couldn't
>> get your fitting function. Is it an  empirical function? If not,
> could
>> you give me few middle steps so I can get relief?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Diyu
>>
>>
>> On 2023-04-08 03:09, Robertson, Charles William wrote:
>>> Hey Diyu,
>>>
>>>  We are saying the real background is not perfectly described by
> the
>>> mixed events, and this imperfection gives an overall factor of
> F(m).
>>> This F(m) is nearly 1.
>>>
>>>  We are assuming that <. > real phi / <.> real bkg = <.> obs phi /
>>> <.>obs bkgd.
>>>
>>>  <.> is cos theta star sqrd.
>>>
>>>  Let me know if you have any other questions,
>>>  -CW
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>>
>>> From: dshen <dshen AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 11:29 AM
>>> To: Robertson, Charles William <rober558 AT purdue.edu>
>>> Cc: STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG
> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed.
> 9:30
>>> AM EDT
>>>
>>> ---- External Email: Use caution with attachments, links, or
> sharing
>>> data ----
>>>
>>> Hi CW,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your prompt reply.
>>> I actually did similar derivations, based on my understanding, and
> I
>>> found finally there is a disconnection between the fitting
> functions.
>>> See Eq.7 of
>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/invMass4ml.pdf [1]
> [1]
>>> The function form of my Eq.7 is quite different from your fitting
>>> function, and I can't find out why is it...
>>> Could you provide more middle steps to guide me to your fitting
>>> function?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Diyu
>>>
>>> On 2023-04-07 04:59, Robertson, Charles William wrote:
>>>> Hello Diyu,
>>>>
>>>>  Thank you for your question. I made two slides explaining this in
>>>> some more detail.
>>>>  They can be found here:
>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/cos_theta_fit.pdf
> [2]
>>>>
>>>>  Let me know if you have any other questions,
>>>>  -CW
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------
>>>>
>>>> From: dshen <dshen AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2023 10:08 AM
>>>> To: Robertson, Charles William <rober558 AT purdue.edu>; STAR Flow,
>>>> Chirality and Vorticity PWG <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>> Cc: 'subhash' <subhash AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed.
> 9:30
>>>> AM EDT
>>>>
>>>> ---- External Email: Use caution with attachments, links, or
> sharing
>>>> data ----
>>>>
>>>> Hi CW,
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in this inv-mass method, maybe because I am doing
>>> the
>>>> J/psi spin alignment analysis. So I recalled myself today your
>>>> presentation, and I found I have a terrible memory. Could you
>>> explain
>>>> again why/how the fitting function f in slide 4 is derived? and
> why
>>>> <cos^2 theta*> = (1+\rho_fit)/3 ?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Diyu
>>>>
>>>> On 2023-04-05 23:50, Robertson, Charles William via Star-fcv-l
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I updated my slides based on some of the quick comments during
> the
>>>>> meeting.
>>>>>  They can be found here:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_2.pdf
> [3]
>>> [2]
>>>> [1]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  S6: Statistical error bars are now correctly plotted, only an
>>> issue
>>>>> with plotting
>>>>>  S14: Cos Theta Star Sqrd Real/Mix Ratio for an extended
> invariant
>>>>> mass range
>>>>>  S15: Some example fits for the yield method at 200 GeV, using
>>>>> different polynomial backgrounds. Slight variation in yield
>>>> parameter
>>>>> "A".
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>  -CW
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of
>>>>> Robertson, Charles William via Star-fcv-l
>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 9:28 AM
>>>>> To: 'STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG'
>>>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; 'subhash' <subhash AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed.
>>> 9:30
>>>>> AM EDT
>>>>>
>>>>>               ---- External Email: Use caution with attachments,
>>>> links, or
>>>>> sharing data ----
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>>  My slides for today can be found here:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_1.pdf
> [4]
>>> [3]
>>>> [2]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thank you,
>>>>>  -CW
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of
>>>>> Xionghong via Star-fcv-l <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2023 8:52 PM
>>>>> To: 'STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG'
>>>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; 'subhash' <subhash AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed.
>>> 9:30
>>>>> AM EDT
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- External Email: Use caution with attachments, links, or
>>> sharing
>>>>> data ----
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Subhash,
>>>>>
>>>>> My slides for the meeting tomorrow can be found at the link
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PWG_LightNucleiv1atBES2_Xiongh
> [5]
>>> [4]
>>>> [3]
>>>>> ong_20230405.pdf.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks and best regards,
>>>>> Xionghong
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: star-fcv-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>> [mailto:star-fcv-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Xionghong via Star-fcv-l
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2023 9:50 AM
>>>>>> To: 'subhash' <subhash AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>; 'STAR Flow, Chirality
>>> and
>>>>> Vorticity
>>>>>> PWG' <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed.
>>>> 9:30
>>>>> AM
>>>>> EDT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Subhash,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to present light nuclei v1 measurements at 14.6 GeV
>>>> and
>>>>> 19.6
>>>>> GeV.
>>>>>> Please add me to the agenda. I will post my slides later.
> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Xionghong He
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> > From: star-fcv-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:star-fcv-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov]
>>>>>> > On Behalf Of subhash via Star-fcv-l
>>>>>> > Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 9:55 PM
>>>>>> > To: STAR Flow, Chirality and Vorticity PWG
>>>>> <star-fcv-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>>>>> > Subject: [Star-fcv-l] FCV PWG meeting on 05/April/2023 Wed.
> 9:30
>>>>> AM
>>>>>> > EDT
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Dear All,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > We shall have our weekly FCV PWG meeting this Wednesday
>>>>>> > (05/April/2023) at
>>>>>> > 9:30 AM EDT. If you would like to present please let us know.
>>>>> Please
>>>>>> > try
>>>>>> posting
>>>>>> > your slides by Tuesday. The agenda will be collected at:
>>>>>> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jjiastar/bulkcorr [6]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Zoom details are copied below.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thanks and regards,
>>>>>> > Prithwish, Zhenyu and Subhash
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ZOOM LINK FOR FCV MEETING:
>>>>>> > Join ZoomGov Meeting
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>> [5]
>>>> [4]
>>>>> [1]
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> [7]
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>>>> Links:
>>>> ------
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_2.pdf
> [3]
>>> [2]
>>>> [2]
>>>>
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_1.pdf
> [4]
>>> [3]
>>>> [3]
>>>>
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PWG_LightNucleiv1atBES2_Xiongh
> [5]
>>> [4]
>>>> [4]
>>>>
>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/j/1612377416?pwd=V
> [7]
>>> [5]
>>>> [5]
>>>>
>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/u/abVqdu5fbU__;!!P
> [8]
>>> [6]
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/invMass4ml.pdf
> [1]
>>> [2]
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_2.pdf
> [3]
>>> [3]
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_1.pdf
> [4]
>>> [4]
>>>
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PWG_LightNucleiv1atBES2_Xiongh
> [5]
>>> [5]
>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/j/1612377416?pwd=V
> [7]
>>> [6]
>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/u/abVqdu5fbU__;!!P
> [8]
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/invMass4ml.pdf
> [2] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/cos_theta_fit.pdf
> [3]
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_2.pdf
> [4]
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PhiMesonFCVMeeting040523_1.pdf
> [5]
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/PWG_LightNucleiv1atBES2_Xiongh
> [6] https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jjiastar/bulkcorr
> [7]
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/j/1612377416?pwd=V
> [8]
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bnl.zoomgov.com/u/abVqdu5fbU__;!!P
> [9] https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fcv-l