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["Capotosto, Michael (CONTR)" <capotosto AT bnl.gov>]

Gerard,

I've requested a quote from Alpha, they're not able to produce the cable on 
their equipment in FEP. When I followed up with the quote from the last set 
of cables (The purple cables) they replied, " My hunch is that we are not 
able to manufacture within the Alpha manufacturing foot print and that we 
utilized the broader capability of our corporate structure family to have 
this manufactured with larger bore equipment in the past." - he will follow 
up with me. 

I also asked a contractor we frequently use for cable assembly, I haven't 
heard back from him yet either. 

--Mike 
-----Original Message-----
From: Star-fst-l <star-fst-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> On Behalf Of Gerard Visser
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:32 AM
To: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] Cost Estimate for Production FST Inner Signal 
Cables // Fwd: Re: integration of sTGC and Si

hi Mike,
        Did you hear back anything from Alpha yet? (Sorry if I missed this in 
meeting, I joined a bit late.)
        Before we would order cables we should also have a clear 
understanding of how they fit in with the mechanics. Obviously, we need to 
know that they will fit before ordering the cable. Conversely, if they fit 
with oodles of extra space, we might make some change to the cable to make it 
cheaper or more flexible at the cost of a larger diameter... So it is 
premature to order any cable until we can look at these mechanical aspects, 
in my opinion anyway.
        Sincerely,

                Gerard
        

On 7/2/2019 3:02 PM, Capotosto, Michael (CONTR) wrote:
> Zhenyu,
> 
> Thank you for the clarification.
> 
> Gerard,
> 
> You are correct, I misinterpreted the part number. The test cables were in 
> fact PVC insulation. I've put in a quote request through Alphawire, it 
> looks like we should receive a reply within 24-48 hours.
> 
> --Mike Capotosto
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerard Visser <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 2:32 PM
> To: Capotosto, Michael (CONTR) <capotosto AT bnl.gov>
> Cc: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] Cost Estimate for Production FST Inner 
> Signal Cables // Fwd: Re: integration of sTGC and Si
> 
> hi Mike,
>       Let me try to answer in below  -->
>       - Gerard
> 
> On 7/2/2019 2:19 PM, Capotosto, Michael (CONTR) wrote:
>> Gerard,
>>
>> Cable size should not be an issue, as the custom cable will almost 
>> certainly be smaller in diameter than three separate shielded cables.
> 
> That is for sure true the custom cable will be much smaller than those test 
> cable assemblies made as a composite of three standard cables.
> 
> On the other hand though the test cable assembly would _never_ fit in the 
> real installation! I think it is _not_ useful as a guide to how small is 
> small enough. Better ask Rahul how small is small enough.
> 
>>
>> As far as requirements go, it is my understanding that the cables 
>> should be the same size
> 
> just same length, you mean
> 
>> as the test stand cables, coming in at 8' long +/- 1". Assuming we follow 
>> the quote from the IST cables: The cable will have 16 pairs of 28AWG solid 
>> 2 conductor cabled together, at a minimum of 16 twists per foot. The cable 
>> will also have 4 individual conductors, size 22AWG stranded (7/30). The 
>> cable will be shielded with an aluminum/mylar tape, with a 25% minimum 
>> overlap, and a 22AWG stranded (7/30) drain wire. Is this correct? Are 
>> there any preferences for pair colors and outer jacket color?
> 
> I think for the wire colors, unique identification using solid colors is 
> what we want, i.e. like in the IST cable or of course any similar scheme. 
> We don't actually care at all about wire colors once the cable is assembled.
> 
> As far as jacket color, well we were told we could have any solid 
> color at equal cost. Purple was nice, it is unique and says "special 
> cable / be careful", and it looks nice. But it could be white, clear, 
> anything really. (Well, probably better not orange.)
> 
>>
>> Do you know if FEP was a requirement for this cable? When assembling the 
>> T-Boards we had issues with the jacket beginning to melt, shrinking back, 
>> or splitting - would we be able to switch to an insulation with a higher 
>> melting point such as Teflon/PTFE?
> 
> I don't think you'll have trouble with melting FEP. (Also the test 
> cables were not FEP, I think?)
> 
> I chose FEP for small size (it is fine to have a few mil FEP 
> insulation, not so easy to do that with other materials), toughness, 
> slipperiness, and of course inherent flame retardance.
> 
> The insulation on signal wires "ought" to have low dielectric loss 
> (FEP, PTFE, polyethylene, or polypropylene) for best signal quality. 
> But these cables are not too long, it's not a crucial point.
> 
>>
>> Zhenyu,
>> Does the 48 cable count include spares? If not, how many spares do you 
>> need?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike Capotosto
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gerard Visser <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 12:03 PM
>> To: Capotosto, Michael (CONTR) <capotosto AT bnl.gov>
>> Cc: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>> Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] Cost Estimate for Production FST Inner 
>> Signal Cables // Fwd: Re: integration of sTGC and Si
>>
>> Hi Zhenyu, Mike,
>>      I send here below the info on the *IST* inner cable. Also the third 
>> attachment here (not part of the forwarded message below but following a 
>> few days later) was a refreshed quote for that.
>>      For *FST*, I think we will revise slightly (fewer pairs)... Also if 
>> necessary I think the power wires could be reduced from 22 AWG to 24 AWG 
>> as the current will be 2/3 that of IST and the length also less than IST. 
>> But someone should make some estimation of voltage drop. Of course 22 AWG 
>> is better if the diameter is OK.
>>      If I remember right, BNL purchased from Meunier for one of our past 
>> projects, and they have good pricing, so when you contact Alpha for the 
>> new cable design & quote you may want to suggest procurement through 
>> Meunier, unless BNL can buy direct from Alpha of course.
>>      Sincerely,
>>
>>              Gerard
>>
>>
>> On 7/2/2019 9:57 AM, Zhenyu Ye wrote:
>>    > Hi Mike,
>>    >
>>    > Can you please make a cost estimate for the actual FST inner signal 
>> cables, based on the work you have done for the FST test cables? We will 
>> need 48 of actual cables. The cost should include the cable itself (Gerard 
>> had a quote for it. Gerard, can you please share it with Mike), 
>> connectors, and external assembly work for the cable+T-board.
>>    >
>>    > Thanks,
>>    > Zhenyu
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