STAR HardProbes PWG

["Ma, Rongrong" <marr AT bnl.gov>]

Hello Youqi

In the interest of time, here are some comments for your consideration. 

General
- For the first letter of the first word after a colon, sometimes you 
capitalize it and sometimes you do not. Please pick one and stick to it. 

s3
- The text and formula below the cartoon on the left are blurring. I suggest 
you write it down yourself instead of copy and paste a screenshot (if I am 
right)

s7
- for 200 GeV pp collisions 

s8
- unfolds for -> unfolds
- Uncertainties include prior variation, accounted -> Uncertainties due to 
prior choice accounted

s10
- The figure slightly overlaps with the text below

s12
- allows us to do algebra on post-unfolded quantities -> allows us to 
correlate unfolded quantities

s16
- It is a bit weird to refer to a HP talk. I suggest to remove the box on top.

s18
- are more likely from -> are more likely to have

s27
- remove (you already have this slide)

Best
Rongrong

> On Mar 24, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Youqi Song via Star-hp-l 
> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> 
> Hi Nihar and all,
> 
> I have updated my slides here: 
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v4.1.pdf. I added 
> "(z_cut,2 , beta_2) = (0.1, 0)" on slide 4, and the statement on slide 14 
> "consistent with angular ordered parton showers" is what Helen suggested in 
> the email with Monika. In addition, I put a slide for comparison with 
> theory calculation in backup.
> 
> Best,
> Youqi
> 
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 2:01 PM Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
> Hi Youqi,
> 
> Please find my further comments inline.
> 
> On 2023-03-24 20:11, Youqi Song wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I have updated my slides here:
> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v4.pdf.
> > 
> > Addressing Nihar's comments:
> > 
> >> Slide4:
> >> You don't describe what is (z_cut,2 , beta_2). Please mention what
> >> is
> >> that.
> >> if you don't use, mention it.
> > 
> > It's a good point that I should make both sets of (z_cut, beta) values
> > clear. I've updated my figures in the later slides to include
> > (z_cut,1, beta_1) = (0,0) and (z_cut,2, beta_2) = (0.1,0). I will
> > upload these figures to drupal shortly. But as for slide 4, I am
> > inclined to not put in (z_cut,2, beta_2) = (0.1, 0) here, since this
> > bullet point here says "special case". What's "special" about this
> > case is that (z_cut1, beta_1) = (0,0), which I have written on the
> > slide, but the exact values of (z_cut,2, beta_2) don't make it
> > "special".
> 
> Sorry, I don't get my answer.
> Have you used (z_cut,2 , beta_2) in your analysis or not?
> If you have used it, just mention it in this slide.
> If not, don't mention it.
> 
> > 
> >> SLide:6
> >> "Note: Hadronization effects smear the distribution but don’t
> >> affect the
> >> correlations (see backup)"
> >> 
> >> Please either put some plots here to show what you claim or remove
> >> it
> >> and in case someone asks you go to your backup slide.
> >> In your talk while presenting, no one will go to see your backup.
> > 
> > I have discussed this with Helen, and we think it will be useful to
> > have a note somewhere in the main slides to acknowledge that we have
> > studied the effect of hadronization. Since the talk is already on the
> > long side, I think it might be better to keep the plots in the backup.
> > In case someone asks me to go to backup slides during Q&A or coffee
> > breaks, I would happily do so.
> > 
> >> "consistent with angular ordered parton shower picture"
> >> Do you mean all subsequent emissions from hard parton in vacuum as a
> >> function of formation time?
> > 
> > I have now moved this statement up to combine with the first bullet
> > point, since we have agreed in the "Re: Text for Youqi's slide for HP
> > Plenary" email thread that in the HP highlight talk that the physics
> > message is "Anti-correlation of collinear dropped jet mass and Rg
> > confirms angular ordering in vacuum showers”
> 
> I don't get my answer here.
> 
> So I would not say "confirms".
> Because it is not clear what "angular ordering" we are saying here?
> 
> 
> Thank you
> Nihar
> 
> > 
> > Best,
> > Youqi
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 9:08 AM Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw> wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi Helen,
> >> 
> >> Thanks a lot for the explanation.
> >> I completely confused myself... it is completely fine to me if
> >> HERWIG is running at 200 GeV.
> >> 
> >> Chees,
> >> Yi
> >> 
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Yi Yang, Professor
> >> Department of Physics /
> >> Director of Science Education Center
> >> National Cheng Kung University
> >> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
> >> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
> >> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
> >> Fax: +886-6-2747995
> >> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [1]
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> 
> >> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 5:58 PM Helen Caines
> >> <helen.caines AT yale.edu> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Yi, Barbara,
> >> 
> >> Youqi can correct me if I am wrong, but the HERWIG simulation is
> >> run at 200 GeV is it just that the tune was done to LHC data.
> >> 
> >> So the physics evolution with sqrt(s) should be there and the
> >> comparison valid. Also, since this is a substructure variable if
> >> they have the quark/gluon fraction changing appropriately with
> >> sqrt(s) the agreement should be good if they are modeling this well
> >> at LHC energies. Once the hard scatter has occurred, and assuming
> >> the UE isn’t contaminating the results horribly, how the parton
> >> splits and then hadronizes should be independent of the original
> >> sqrt(s) of the collision for a fixed jet pT and parton species.
> >> 
> >> Helen
> >> 
> >> ***********************
> >> Yale University
> >> Physics Dept. - Wright Lab.
> >> PO Box 208120
> >> New Haven, CT 06520
> >> 203-432-5831
> >> ***********************
> >> she/her/hers
> >> "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.
> >> It's about learning how to dance in the rain." - Vivian Greene
> >> 
> >> On Mar 23, 2023, at 4:16 PM, Youqi Song via Star-hp-l
> >> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi all,
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the additional feedback! I have implemented all the
> >> suggestions and  uploaded my slides here:
> >> 
> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v3_print.pdf.
> >> Regarding the HERWIG comparisons, I think we are only making a weak
> >> statement by claiming that "they are roughly consistent with the
> >> trend of data", so we aren't drawing too much physics out of the
> >> comparisons. But I will discuss that more with Helen and Raghav on
> >> that and update you about it.
> >> 
> >> Please let me know if you have any additional comments and
> >> questions!
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> Youqi
> >> 
> >> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 5:44 AM Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Youqi,
> >> 
> >> Thanks a lot for the updated version and reply. I don't have any
> >> further comments on your nice slides.
> >> Just want to follow up the HERWIG7, I understand it has different
> >> hadronization and it is (probably) okay to compare it with. But can
> >> you really draw a conclusion from this comparison? I mean, can you
> >> tell the difference is due to different collision energy or
> >> hadronization process? If not, I am not sure how helpful this
> >> comparison can be. Just my two cents.
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Yi
> >> 
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Yi Yang, Professor
> >> Department of Physics /
> >> Director of Science Education Center
> >> National Cheng Kung University
> >> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
> >> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
> >> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
> >> Fax: +886-6-2747995
> >> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [2]
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:59 PM Youqi Song <youqi.song AT yale.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Barbara, Nihar and Yi,
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the feedback! I have updated my slides here:
> >> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/dis_032823_v3.pdf
> >> 
> >> Regarding Barbara's comments:
> >> 
> >> Just a comment on s16. It's hard to quickly judge by eye which
> >> distribution is more steep so it might not be obvious to people. But
> >> you don't need the right plot to make this point. The first split
> >> should be basically the sum of the contributions that you show on
> >> your plot. So naturally it should be less steep than the blue, if
> >> green and yellow are flatter. With the z_g in R_g bins we show that
> >> we saw the np contributions to the first split and have a consistent
> >> picture - as you write in your backup. Which I think is a nice
> >> physics message.
> >> I see, that's a good point. I switched the zg vs Rg plot into the
> >> main section and zg vs # splitting to backup.
> >> 
> >> Regarding Nihar's comments:
> >> 
> >> I have fixed the wording and updated my figures here:
> >> 
> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/youqi/Multidimensional-jet-substructure-multifold-preliminary-figures.
> >> 
> >> Regarding Yi's comments:
> >> 
> >> - p2: your right-handed cartoon plot covers the text a bit.
> >> - p3: the resolution at the left-bottom area (z_g, z_cut, and beta)
> >> is not good? And similar for dM/M and M on p4.
> >> I fixed these in the new version.
> >> - p6: What does "~" mean here? I saw 3 places.
> >> I use "~" to indicate something like "roughly implies/looks like".
> >> We wanted to be careful here because hadronization effects can
> >> affect our measurements. I added a note about that on this slide.
> >> 
> >> - p12: Could you please remind me of the motivation for comparing
> >> HERWIG with LHC tune? Do we expect the tune works for RHIC?
> >> We don't have a HERWIG tune at RHIC energy, and this LHC tune that
> >> we used is the default tune in HERWIG7. I think it's still useful to
> >> compare since it does hadronization differently from PYTHIA.
> >> 
> >> - p14: the "boxes (yellow, green, and black)" cover the information
> >> on the plot, could you please try a thinner line for them?
> >> I have my slides in animation, so when the left side 2D plot first
> >> shows up, those boxes are not there. I will keep them for my
> >> presentation, but perhaps when I upload the slides to the indico
> >> page I can remove those boxes.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> Youqi
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 8:36 AM Yi Yang via Star-hp-l
> >> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Youqi,
> >> 
> >> Thanks a lot for the nice slides. I only have some minor comments
> >> for your consideration.
> >> - p2: your right-handed cartoon plot covers the text a bit.
> >> - p3: the resolution at the left-bottom area (z_g, z_cut, and beta)
> >> is not good? And similar for dM/M and M on p4.
> >> - p6: What does "~" mean here? I saw 3 places.
> >> - p12: Could you please remind me of the motivation for comparing
> >> HERWIG with LHC tune? Do we expect the tune works for RHIC?
> >> - p14: the "boxes (yellow, green, and black)" cover the information
> >> on the plot, could you please try a thinner line for them?
> >> - p15: I am not sure if it is good to say "See Monika's talk at
> >> HP", probably is okay...
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Yi
> >> 
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Yi Yang, Professor
> >> Department of Physics /
> >> Director of Science Education Center
> >> National Cheng Kung University
> >> Tainan, 701 Taiwan
> >> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw
> >> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237
> >> Fax: +886-6-2747995
> >> Group Web: http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/~yiyang [3]
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> 
> >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 10:14 AM webmaster--- via Star-hp-l
> >> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> >> Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
> >> 
> >> Youqi Song (youqi.song AT yale.edu) has submitted a material for a
> >> review,
> >> please have a look:
> >> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/62961
> >> 
> >> Deadline: 2023-03-27
> >> ---
> >> If you have any problems with the review process, please contact
> >> webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
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