NPPS Leadership Team

[Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com>]

Hi Chris,

I like your bottom line :-)

Makoto wrote all the 'kitchen sink' items you mention, not Markus, JLab. TBB is not discontinued, ATLAS and others are using it and as far as I know it's stronger than ever as now a part of oneAPI (oneTBB).

The scope of the proposal and effort proper is simu framework, aka G4. Not end to end, except ensuring simu mates properly to the rest.

And yes, the timescale is wildly optimistic, even understanding the framework as G4, and every deliverable having 'initial' attached to it. Makoto ascribes to it, with him as the doer it has more credibility than were it anyone else. My hope (and cautious expectation) is that at the 4 month mark the progress looks strong enough to extend the program.

What he precisely does and what comes out need not have a heavy JLab stamp, that is up to us. He isn't sitting at JLab any more than we are. And whatever the JLab additions like SoLID to make it more palatable to their funding approval path, this is understood as an EIC proposal and effort towards a common simu.

  Torre

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:45 AM pinkenburg via Phys-npps-mgmt-l <phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Hi Torre,

in general getting Makoto involved is a good idea but one has to realize that his strength is G4, likely not frameworks. So this proposal is a thinly veiled attempt of JLab to acquire the software leadership (which given the support we get from BNL seems to be a foregone conclusion).

In general it reads like the JLab software talks I have seen - no real meat only smoke and mirrors. They throw the kitchen sink with a mixture of solutions (use G4 Regions - which doesn't really work here if you think about it) and a random wish list (cutting edge IT technologies), buzz words ("plug in", PTL, TBB - isn't TBB discontinued?).

But the main problem is that the workplan is completely off. 4 months at 50% to deliver a framework (from scratch), create a pluggable sim framework, create an EIC  physics list (which is a real beast, given the energy range of the EIC and variety of detector technologies - I would not be surprised if it is more complex than the LHC), create sims for SoLID (this is a funny one - we offered them Fun4All but they declined, 4 years later they obviously still don't have anything working) and integrate with the software effort (4 months = 16 weekly meetings).

Given that timescale - the outcome will be whatever JLab has is the solution.

I think it would be great if Makoto would get the G4 sims ready for the EIC, I don't see anyone else who is available and could do this for the EIC (and detectors are being designed NOW). This needs at least a semi-realistic goal setting to make it fly.

Chris
 

On 2/17/2021 9:54 AM, Torre Wenaus via Phys-npps-mgmt-l wrote:

The red part is a recent addition to strengthen the case for JLab support.

Please don't circulate it further.

  Torre

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 9:50 AM Torre Wenaus <wenaus AT gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I attach the still-draft proposal to engage Makoto Asai in leading a common EIC simu effort that I've mentioned a few times. JLab is supportive and seems likely to try to turn it into a contract. Ideally (from my point of view) BNL will get involved also, e.g. by extending its duration. I'm not raising that sort of suggestion until JLab's intentions become clearer, and I'm interested to hear your comments. It's still a draft as I say.

  Torre

--

-- Torre Wenaus, BNL NPPS Group, ATLAS Experiment

-- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com

-- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square

--

-- Torre Wenaus, BNL NPPS Group, ATLAS Experiment

-- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com

-- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square

_______________________________________________
Phys-npps-mgmt-l mailing list
Phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/phys-npps-mgmt-l

-- 
*************************************************************

Christopher H. Pinkenburg	;    pinkenburg AT bnl.gov
				;    http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/~pinkenbu

Brookhaven National Laboratory	;    phone: (631) 344-5692
Physics Department Bldg 510 C	;    fax:   (631) 344-3253
Upton, NY 11973-5000

*************************************************************

_______________________________________________
Phys-npps-mgmt-l mailing list
Phys-npps-mgmt-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/phys-npps-mgmt-l

--

-- Torre Wenaus, BNL NPPS Group, ATLAS Experiment

-- BNL 510A 1-222 | 631-681-7892 |  wenaus AT gmail.com | npps.bnl.gov | wenaus.com

-- NPPS Mattermost room: https://chat.sdcc.bnl.gov/npps/channels/town-square