Star-fst-l mailing list

[Zhenyu Ye <yezhenyu2003 AT gmail.com>]

The latest version can be found at
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/yezhenyu-SafetyReview.FST-20201019.v3.pdf
The meeting will start at 3pm today. If you have comments/suggestions, please 
let me know before the meeting.

Zhenyu

> On Oct 18, 2020, at 11:20 PM, Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov> wrote:
> 
> Dear Yi,
> 
> thanks for clarifying what GOOD means, but please keep in mind if these 
> detectors are not at BNL it does not count, I think we should list in 
> addition ot GOOD the BNL detector this material was used.
> 
> Thanks elke
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2020, at 22:13, Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am sorry for the delayed reply. I was away during the weekend. 
>> 
>> Good in ES&G means these materials are already widely used in detectors 
>> and Flemming is correct that two TBCs means that these two glues and 
>> thermal grease are needed to be approved by BNL. 
>> I would like to ask to add slide 9 from my Sept. 28 report which indicates 
>> that the thermal grease works fine after radiation test.
>> 
>> I would also like to confirm that all production works are strictly 
>> following the ES&H rues at NCKU and NTU (TiDC). 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Yi
>>    
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Yi Yang, Associate Professor 
>> Department of Physics 
>> National Cheng Kung University 
>> Tainan, 701 Taiwan 
>> E-Mail: yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw 
>> Tel: +886-6-2757575 ext.65237 
>> Fax: +886-6-2747995
>> Group Web: 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://phys.ncku.edu.tw/*yiyang__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!VXB_E7iJdOkKo5Vs0uNmaqbJfitjD0bbEiAP709hBFQlp4Z3p9QCT1uyAWxnKpdelc3uvdw$
>>   
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:28 AM videbaek <videbaek AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I looked at the most recent slides. I think most things are covered.
>> 
>> - The is no mentioning of the epoxy, encapsulation used at FNAL. I am 
>> sure its ok.
>> - The TBC that Yi mentioned for MS is a two-component epoxy.The MSD only 
>> has issues in regard to the
>> liquid phase, nothing mentioned on material after hardening.
>> - I would say using 36 (out of 72 IST cables)
>> 
>> my assessment, there may be more please add.
>> 
>> Also ES&H for production follows ES&H rues at institution (NCKY, FNAL, 
>> BNL)
>> 
>> Equipment hazard:
>> -- Radiation damage of cooling lines (investigated)
>> -- Cooling failure interlocks (Was for IST)
>> -- power interlocked to STAR global interlocks
>> 
>> People hazard
>> -- none when installed
>> -- 
>> 
>> Flemming
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2020-10-17 15:09, Aschenauer Elke-Caroline wrote:
>> > thanks for updating, looks nice, Yi indeed we need to know what you
>> > mean by good for ES&H
>> > this needs to be identified for Monday afternoon
>> > 
>> > Cheers elke
>> > 
>> >> On Oct 16, 2020, at 20:27, Zhenyu Ye <yezhenyu2003 AT gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Elke, Flemming, Gerard, Maowu, Mike, thanks for all the
>> >> comments/suggestions.
>> >> 
>> >> A newer version (v2) of the slides are uploaded.
>> >> 
>> >> I will let Yi to answer the question on slide 5 by Elke " what you
>> >> mean by good for ES&H”
>> >> 
>> >> Indeed, slide 14 is not useful for this review. The main message of
>> >> this slide is that we have a design for mechanical support and
>> >> integration currently under internal review. We will present the
>> >> details to ESRC in a future review.
>> >> 
>> >> Best
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> 
>> >> On Oct 16, 2020, at 11:56 AM, Aschenauer Elke-Caroline
>> >> <elke AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Hi HI,
>> >> 
>> >> I have a couple of comments.
>> >> 
>> >> slide 5: one needs to define what you mean by good for ES&H, does
>> >> this mean already approved becuase of earlier us in STAR or what
>> >> side 7 is completely redundant, if you want to show it, but it in
>> >> front of slide 4
>> >> slide 11: do we have a definition of the cable, meaning a link to
>> >> the vendor and webpage or …… just something which gives info
>> >> 
>> >> slide 14: is not very helpful for this review, as it does not say
>> >> what materials are used for the support structure and this review is
>> >> not a design review / safety review for this much more detail needs
>> >> to be provided.
>> >> 
>> >> Cheers elke
>> >> 
>> >> On Oct 16, 2020, at 10:47, videbaek <videbaek AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> HI ZHENYU
>> >> 
>> >> A FEW COMMENTS TO THE SLIDES.
>> >> Do you have the old report on the ESCR review for IST?
>> >> 
>> >> slide 9:
>> >> 
>> >> For the HV add the info on modules from the IST slides
>> >> (Iseg <100V, <1 mA, BNC if correct)
>> >> 
>> >> slide 11
>> >> Understand you are not finished- add flamability result
>> >> Doe we have the specs for the cable (Mike, Gerard?)
>> >> 
>> >> slide 14 bullet 3 to ESCR at later review
>> >> 
>> >> move slide 15 to backup
>> >> 
>> >> best Flemming
>> >> 
>> >> On 2020-10-15 23:02, Ye, Zhenyu wrote:
>> >> Dear all,
>> >> I have made some slides for the ESRC review next Monday (Slides on
>> >> inner signal cable/T-board and summary are not finished). Your
>> >> comments are welcome.
>> >> 
>> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/event/2020/08/24/star-forward-silicon-tracker-meeting/safety-pre-approval-materials
>> >> Best,
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> PS. Slides for IST safety review can also be found in the above
>> >> webpage
>> >> On Oct 9, 2020, at 12:31 PM, Ye, Zhenyu <yezhenyu AT uic.edu> wrote:
>> >> Hi All,
>> >> We are asked by CAD to do a safety review for FST on Monday Oct 19
>> >> 2pm. Meeting info will be sent later.
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> Begin forwarded message:
>> >> From: pak <pak AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>
>> >> Subject: Re: Pre-approval for STAR Forward Silicon Tracker materials
>> >> Date: October 8, 2020 at 6:17:50 PM CDT
>> >> To: "Ye, Zhenyu" <yezhenyu AT uic.edu>
>> >> Cc: flemming videbaek <videbaek AT bnl.gov>, Robert Pak <pak AT bnl.gov>,
>> >> Yi Yang <yiyang AT ncku.edu.tw>
>> >> Hello Zhenyu,
>> >> I forwarded your e-mail from Sept. 3rd to the ESRC Chair (attached
>> >> below).  They asked for guidance from a materials specialist at CAD.
>> >> That person did not respond all this time, because they had
>> >> surgery, and are on medical leave.  The ESRC Chair asked their
>> >> stand-in for guidance, who suggested to have a review of the Si
>> >> tracker.
>> >> The slides should include an overview of the detector, with emphasis
>> >> on the hazards to personnel and hazards to equipment.  In my
>> >> experience with Si detectors, the first category is minimal.  The
>> >> second category has greater risks involved, because Si detector are
>> >> relatively fragile and can be potentially damaged if proper
>> >> precautions are not taken.  Of course you and Flemming are well
>> >> aware of this from experience with the HFT.  That is why I am
>> >> confident you will be able to handle this review.  Attached is an
>> >> example from a similar review today.
>> >> On 2020-10-08 17:56, Ye, Zhenyu wrote:
>> >> Hi Robert,
>> >> We asked for pre-approval of materials, not a full safety review.
>> >> What
>> >> info should be included in the slides that the CAD would like to
>> >> see?
>> >> Do you have examples that can share with us.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> On 2020-10-08 17:27, pak wrote:
>> >> Hello Zhenyu,
>> >> The CAD representative standing in for the materials expert decided
>> >> they would like a review of the Si tracker.  That is a tentative
>> >> time,
>> >> because it does not work for me.  Does it work for you?
>> >> Also, would you be available to give the presentation on Monday
>> >> instead?  It is a Lab Holiday, but that works for me.
>> >> Robert Pak
>> >> On Oct 7, 2020, at 9:00 AM, pak <pak AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
>> >> Hello Zhenyu,
>> >> The ESRC Chair was OK, but he reached out to someone else at CAD.  I
>> >> pinged them both again for any final questions/comments.
>> >> Robert Pak
>> >> On 2020-10-07 09:45, Ye, Zhenyu wrote:
>> >> Hi Robert,
>> >> Is there any feedback from Chair of the Experimental Safety Review
>> >> Committee at CAD?
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> On Sep 4, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Ye, Zhenyu <yezhenyu AT uic.edu> wrote:
>> >> Robert, Thanks a lot for the help. Yes, indeed. We don’t think
>> >> there is no issue with most of the materials we use for the Silicon
>> >> Tracker, as they are commonly used in other Silicon detectors, but
>> >> feel it would be better to run it across the safety before the
>> >> production starts.
>> >> Best,
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:42 AM, pak <pak AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
>> >> OK Zhenyu, I will forward this e-mail to the Chair of the
>> >> Experimental Safety Review Committee at CAD.  I really don't see any
>> >> issue.  That's one of the benefits of a Si detector, relatively low
>> >> safety hazard (spoken by someone who spent 9 years in Phobos and was
>> >> recruited to build Si detectors in PHENIX).
>> >> Robert Pak
>> >> On 2020-09-03 18:58, Ye, Zhenyu wrote:
>> >> Hi Rboert,
>> >> Yes, we are aware of the compatibility requirement of the cooling
>> >> tubes and NOVEC, and have selected two candidate tubes made of
>> >> plastic
>> >> based on vendor’s recommendation.
>> >> The materials that we will use to build FST detector modules,
>> >> cooling
>> >> tubes and cables, include
>> >> 1. Mechanical structure made of pure PEEK (not carbon fibre. See
>> >> page
>> >> 3 of Ref [1])
>> >> 2. Cooling tubes embedded in each module made of Stainless steel
>> >> coated with Chroming (see page 3 of Ref [1])
>> >> 3. Cooing tubes connecting adjacent modules made of plastic (see
>> >> page
>> >> 27 of Ref [1])
>> >> 4. Flexible PCB, made of Polyimide (see Ref [2])
>> >> 5. Glue and Thermal Grease used for Mechanical structure and
>> >> flexible
>> >> PCB assembly (see page 3 of Ref [1])
>> >> 6. Electronic board, made of FR-4 (see Ref [3])
>> >> 7. Inner signal cable, the ones that Mike gave to you for Flammable
>> >> test
>> >> 8. Glue used for mounting Silicon sensors and frontend readout
>> >> chips,
>> >> but they are the same as we used for STAR Intermediate Silicon
>> >> Tracker
>> >> (2014-2016). I suppose they are fine.
>> >> [1]
>> >> 
>> > https://indico.bnl.gov/event/9021/contributions/39989/attachments/29767/46442/20200803_FST_Mechanical_YiYang_v4.pdf
>> >> [2]
>> >> 
>> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Datasheet%20for%20hybrid%20v3_0.pdf
>> >> [3]
>> >> 
>> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Datasheet%20for%20T-Board%20v3_1_0.pdf
>> >> We are wondering what kind of info is needed for pre-approval before
>> >> we start the production.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >> On Sep 3, 2020, at 4:36 PM, pak <pak AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
>> >> Hello Zhenyu,
>> >> I am aware of the flame test for FST cable.  What other materials
>> >> are specifically in question?  The detectors themselves and carbon
>> >> fiber support structure are benign.  Electronics boards are made of
>> >> FR-4, which is a fire resistant version of G10.  NOVEC cooling fluid
>> >> is standard stuff now.  What you should be concerned about is the
>> >> compatibility of your cooling tubes and NOVEC cooling fluid, or
>> >> leaks may develop over time.  Also there is triboelectric charging
>> >> (electrostatic build up) from the flowing NOVEC that may introduce
>> >> leaks, but these are not safety issues.
>> >> Robert Pak
>> >> On 2020-09-03 13:11, Ye, Zhenyu wrote:
>> >> Dear Robert,
>> >> This is Zhenyu from Univ of Illinois at Chicago. I hope you are
>> >> doing well.
>> >> I am the STAR FST upgrade project manager.  As you may know, FST
>> >> went
>> >> through a production readiness review recently and we are about to
>> >> start the detector module, electronic board/cable production. For
>> >> this
>> >> we would like to get a pre-approval (not sure if this is the right
>> >> name) for the materials we are going to use.
>> >> I am wondering if you can tell me what kind of info we should
>> >> prepare
>> >> for such a pre-approval review?
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Zhenyu
>> >  --
>> > Flemming Videbaek
>> > senior scientist
>> > videbaek @ bnl.gov
>> > Brookhaven National Lab
>> > Physics Department
>> > Bldg 510D
>> > Upton, NY 11973
>> > phone: 631-344-4106
>> > cell     :  631-681-1596
>> > <Diamond Detector ASSRC Review
>> > 10-8-20.pdf>_______________________________________________
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>> > 
>> > --
>> > Flemming Videbaek
>> > senior scientist
>> > videbaek @ bnl.gov [1]
>> > Brookhaven National Lab
>> > Physics Department
>> > Bldg 510D
>> > Upton, NY 11973
>> > 
>> > phone: 631-344-4106
>> > cell     :  631-681-1596
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>> > 
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>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Links:
>> > ------
>> > [1] http://bnl.gov
>> 
>> -- 
>> Flemming Videbaek
>> senior scientist
>> videbaek @ bnl.gov
>> Brookhaven National Lab
>> Physics Department
>> Bldg 510D
>> Upton, NY 11973
>> 
>> phone: 631-344-4106
>> cell     :  631-681-1596
>> _______________________________________________
>> Star-fst-l mailing list
>> Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
> 
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>   )    `\                                                      +
>  /    '. |        Elke-Caroline Aschenauer  (she/her/hers)      =
>  |       `,                                                      -
>   \,_  `-/        Brookhaven National Lab                         +
>   ,&&&&&V         Physics Dept.,            25 Corona Road         =
>  ,&&&&&&&&:       Bldg. 510 /2-195          Rocky Point, NY,        -
> ,&&&&&&&&&&;      20 Pennsylvania Avenue                 11778       +
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