NPPS Leadership Team

[pinkenburg <pinkenburg AT bnl.gov>]

Hi Alexander,

just got back from Lehigh.

fair and frank I would say. I am very tired of getting confronted with hand waving proposals which have no basis in reality. But asking for a schedule/timeline and deliverables and then have them fall into their own sword might be the best way to deal with that.

Anything new will take years to develop. ejana is an empty shell and still in the "does not even compile" stage, DD4hep also doesn't compile under SL7. I had some back and forth with the authors (who responded within minutes to the issue raised which is good) and it looks like gcc 4.8 is not supported (not completely C++11 compliant). You need at least 4.9 but clang 7.0.0 which should be compliant also did not work, not sure what this means.

Bottom line -  we should really spend effort on something actually useful for the EIC (which are getting simulations out there, basically what Thomas asks for) and a RICH would be part of that effort. I am not sure about importing whatever detector designs they proposed, if this is a good idea or will backfire, we should discuss this in some more detail among us. Something tells me those designs are just some basic shapes for spiffy event displays which should be fast to implement.

Chris

On 7/9/2019 5:41 PM, Alexander Kiselev via Phys-npps-mgmt-l wrote:

  Hi Chris,

  I think we should have a fair conversation with the JLAB guys tomorrow.

  My main concern with this community reconstruction work is that the initiative comes at the very wrong moment in time. I guess, given the
pre-history of these efforts, we need a schedule with deliverables, and
if the activity again starts lagging behind badly, behave accordingly.

  Developing the library (or call it plugins) with some neutral interfaces can at the end be the only part we seriously commit for, at the beginning.

  Since sPHENIX has no RICH, I understand your answer to my question
about "EIC postdoc" non-sPHENIX activities is YES, right? :-)

  Cheers,
    Alexander.



On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, pinkenburg via Phys-npps-mgmt-l wrote:

Hi folks,

I think the EIC effort is a lot better served by someone working on algorithms (rich ring finding comes to mind) and realistic eic related detector implementations rather than getting involved in
this strange community reconstruction which is the solution for everything but has only been boxes/bubbles on slides since its inception many years ago.

I would like to hear the details of how this can be implemented (in detail) and why it's so much better before committing to this.

Just my 2c

Chris


On 7/9/2019 4:52 PM, Alexander Kiselev via Phys-npps-mgmt-l wrote:
        Torre,

            I like the direction...


        great! Then why don't we follow it? :-)

            EIC software: Needs some dedicated effort now to leverage BNL software strengths, the effort level rising over time as sPHENIX directed effort transitions to EIC; EIC
            software is a strategic
            investment feeding directly into BNL leadership in detector development and EIC science 


        this edition still sounds like there is no EIC software around other than what can be grown out of sPHENIX one. Let me put it straight: in year
      one will "EIC postdoc" be encouraged to do *anything* EIC-related, which is not at the same time sPHENIX-bound? Like helping adapt EicRoot to the community reconstruction environment?

        Thank you,
          Alexander.




              Torre

            On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 4:26 PM Alexander Kiselev <kisselev AT mail.desy.de> wrote:
                     Hi Torre,

                  > Hi Alexander,What I meant on slide 2 is that in terms of software funding and FTEs, EIC is in a real way a natural (and strategic :-) follow-on to sPHENIX. That's
            what the management
                  has said: the
                  > effort that we build up now, targeted primarily to sPHENIX, we can sustain beyond sPHENIX by directing it at EIC. I didn't mean piggy backing on sPHENIX software. Not
            sure how to
                  reword it because
                  > as I read it, it says what I mean! Suggestions welcome

                     admittedly for me this bullet reads like there is no EIC software
                  worth mentioning other than what follows from the sPHENIX effort.

                     At the same time, I agree in general with everything written about
                  sPHENIX & EIC interplay on slides 3-6.

                     How about

                     "A strategic follow-on to the ongoing EIC software development and
                  sPHENIX effort, directly ..." ?

                     Regards,
                       Alexander.



                  >   Torre
                  >
                  > On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 3:41 PM Alexander Kiselev <kisselev AT mail.desy.de> wrote:
                  >          Hello colleagues,
                  >
                  >       > maybe it is worth pointing out that BNL is the only place where full GEANT4 based EIC detector simulations exist and therefore can provide the EIC community
            with the tools they
                  have
                  >       been asking for
                  >
                  >          I think at present only sPHENIX software qualifies to be called a
                  >       complete GEANT4 simulation, suitable for EIC. EicRoot is a very
                  >       vertasile EIC-oriented tracker development tool, and it has eRHIC-related
                  >       IR description machinery, which is used to populate pCDR (and later on
                  >       CDR) documents. The rest, to be honest, is more or less obsolete and/or
                  >       not really supported.
                  >
                  >          Yet I think 'EIC Software' bullet on slide 2 should be somewhat
                  >       "diversified". EIC software effort is clearly not limited to piggy
                  >       back and/or follow on sPHENIX. This is obviously true for the current
                  >       state. May also well be so for the future (in the unfortunate case
                  >       JLAB wins the site selection or the Day One EIC collaboration decides
                  >       to write its software from scratch or Jana-based framework developed
                  >       by the EIC community grows into a great success, etc).
                  >
                  >          Cheers,
                  >            Alexander.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >       > for the last few years and we should capitalize on this many years of investment. For Fun4All this goes up to forward jet reconstruction which in the plan
            proposed by JLab
                  would be up
                  >       to the users
                  >       > to figure out and implement.
                  >       >
                  >       > Chris
                  >       >
                  >       > On 7/8/2019 3:02 PM, Torre Wenaus via Phys-npps-mgmt-l wrote:
                  >       >       Here are draft program development slides for my 15min slot on Wed, comments appreciated   Torre
                  >       >
                  >       >
                  >       > _______________________________________________
                  >       > Phys-npps-mgmt-l mailing list
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                  >       > --
                  >       > *************************************************************
                  >       >
                  >       > Christopher H. Pinkenburg     ;    pinkenburg AT bnl.gov
                  >       >                               ;    http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/~pinkenbu
                  >       >
                  >       > Brookhaven National Laboratory        ;    phone: (631) 344-5692
                  >       > Physics Department Bldg 510 C ;    fax:   (631) 344-3253
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                  >
                  >




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Christopher H. Pinkenburg    ;    pinkenburg AT bnl.gov
                ;    http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/~pinkenbu

Brookhaven National Laboratory    ;    phone: (631) 344-5692
Physics Department Bldg 510 C    ;    fax:   (631) 344-3253
Upton, NY 11973-5000

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Christopher H. Pinkenburg	;    pinkenburg AT bnl.gov
				;    http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/~pinkenbu

Brookhaven National Laboratory	;    phone: (631) 344-5692
Physics Department Bldg 510 C	;    fax:   (631) 344-3253
Upton, NY 11973-5000

*************************************************************