STAR HardProbes PWG

[Andrew Tamis <andrew.tamis AT yale.edu>]

Hi Yi,

p5: Ah, this was a mistake, i meant to replace it with pT_Jet as I did in slide 6, it is fixed now, thank you for pointing that out!

The three regions are distinguished by the trend of the slope of each, free hadrons with a constant positive slope in log scale, then the transition region when that slope starts decreasing and ending at the highest point.  Then the quark/gluon region is an almost flat region with a small negative slope and ends when the slope gets steeper.  In the future I could be more rigorous to get values of the beginning and ending of each region by curve fitting, but I want to demonstrate in this talk that you can read off the general behavior by eye. 

Best,

Andrew

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 2:25 PM Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Thanks a lot for the nice slides. I only have a few comments/suggestions on v3 for your consideration. 

  - p5: could you please indicate what Q is in the formula? 

  - p7 or p8 (p9: just for my own education, how do you determine the "Free Hadron", "Transition", and "Quarks/Gluons" regions? You mentioned in p7 "Each region is determined by its scaling behavior, could you please tell me more about this? Thanks.

Cheers,

Yi 

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 2:00 PM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:

Hello Tamis,

Thank you for addressing my comments.
I have a few additional comments after going through your motivation and
Pythia study again.

SLide3 (also 4-7): Although you have shown what is "Delta R" in the
cartoon, but can you please define or mention what is "Delta R"?
As you mention the relation with formation time, a clear definition is
missing.

Slide7: Can you mention what is "R_L" in x-axis? Is that as
"ln(Delta_R)"?

Slide8: How do you distinguish (or set the ranges along x-axis)
green-free hadron, gray-transition, and blue-parton region in PYTHIA6? I
don't know how it has been done in theory (right side plot)? A guidance
will be helpful. It brings a question for SLide10.

Slide10: can you set those gree/gray/blue regions for different jet pT
to see how much those regions shift as a function of jet pT? Visually,
there is a change in shape. But can we say something which region is
shifting to where and how much that shift is (in Pythia)?


Cheers
Nihar


On 2022-10-20 11:55, Andrew Tamis via Star-hp-l wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Thank you for the comments!
>
> I have decided to remove the detector level data, leaving the
> comparison between PYTHIA and Geant.  Showing that these agree
> relatively well will give justification that the needed unfolding
> effects will be small, and because of this data won't be shown until
> unfolding is completed.
>
> In addition I have addressed comments given here
>
> Nihar's Comments
>
> "_Before SLide14, you could introduce STAR detector system and what
> are
> the detectors you plan to use for your measurement? A short intro is
> sufficient."
>
> I will verbally introduce STAR and the TPC, but as i am now no longer
> showing data, is introduction of the specific detectors still needed?
> please let me know.
>
> Slide 14 and 15 have been removed/changed
>
> Slide16:
> _Interesting behavior in response to pT cuts -> PYTHIA6 simulation:
> EEC
> shows a dependence on jet p_{T}
> _Robust to pT-independent tracking efficiency effects -> should we say
> this a "robust" or "mild" "negligible" pT-dependent ?
>     We have not checked yet with pT-dependent tracking efficiency.
> (Slide13)
> _ last two bullets "Detector-Level measurement done in STAR p+p run 12
>
> and Unfolding in progress " I would just say combining "First
> measurement of ECC in pp sqrt(s)=200 GeV is in progress in STAR"
>
> Done.
>
> Barbara's comments
>
> _- s5,6: increase text size of the bullet points._
> _- s8-9: label the left plots Pythia and add the version. I would also
> suggest adding on the top of the plots a bigger label with the jet pT
> information. Right now it's hidden in the "Parameters", so it might
> not be so obvious to everyone that moving to STAR energy means
> lowering the jet pT range. _
>
> Done.
>
> I have uploaded the updated draft, please let me know if you have any
> additional comments
>
> Best,
> Andrew
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 1:09 AM Sooraj Radhakrishnan via Star-hp-l
> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>
>> Hi Barbara, Andrew,
>> //s15: to address Sooraj's concerns, which I also share, I would
>> propose to remove "PYTHIA 6" and "GEANT" points and leave the raw
>> detector level data distributions. What do you think?//
>>
>> Yes, this would also be an option. It is up to Andrew to decide
>> which progress and message he wants to show
>>
>> thanks
>> Sooraj
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 11:40 PM Barbara Trzeciak
>> <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> nice slides, please see my comments below.
>>
>> - s5,6: increase text size of the bullet points.
>> - s8-9: label the left plots Pythia and add the version. I would
>> also suggest adding on the top of the plots a bigger label with the
>> jet pT information. Right now it's hidden in the "Parameters", so it
>> might not be so obvious to everyone that moving to STAR energy means
>> lowering the jet pT range.
>> - s14: pp Run12 -> add energy and centrality
>> - s15: to address Sooraj's concerns, which I also share, I would
>> propose to remove "PYTHIA 6" and "GEANT" points and leave the raw
>> detector level data distributions. What do you think?
>> Sooraj, would that work for you ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Barbara
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 12:36 PM Sooraj Radhakrishnan via Star-hp-l
>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew,
>> Are you referring to the plots of S9/10 as performance plots?
>> From your S15, comparing PYTHIA and GEANT, the detector effects seem
>> to be small. So I have a concern that we will be in effect showing
>> the data as preliminary results. I believe you are not ready to
>> release the results without the systematics and unfolding done. So I
>> would suggest not to show data points for the energy correlator,
>> rather some other performance plots that would indicate your
>> progress and STAR's ability to do the measurements. Let me know what
>> you think
>>
>> thanks
>> Sooraj
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 12:29 PM Nihar Sahoo
>> <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov> wrote:
>> Hello Tamis,
>>
>> It is a good study on this new observable.
>> AFA Pythia study is concern, I don't have any comments.
>> I have some minor comments on your data analysis slides.
>>
>> _ Before SLide14, you could introduce STAR detector system and what
>> are
>> the detectors you plan to use for your measurement? A short intro is
>>
>> sufficient.
>>
>> Slide14:
>> _ pp Run12 -> pp sqrt(s)=200 GeV (year 2012)
>> _Trigger - JP2 -> As no one know what is JP2, so it would be good to
>>
>> mention "Jet patch trigger" (here 2 is not necessary for outside
>> world
>> as you describe details about this trigger in sub-bullet)
>> _ Constituent PT ->  Constituent Transverse momentum, p_{T}
>> _Official Embedding, PYTHIA 6  -> PYTHIA6+STAR Géant simulation
>>
>> Slide15:
>> _ Please include "pp sqrt(s) =200 GeV" as legend
>> _ Detector level data retains trends in jet momentum selection ->
>> Detector level data retains trends in jet p_{T} selection
>>
>> Slide16:
>> _Interesting behavior in response to pT cuts -> PYTHIA6 simulation:
>> EEC
>> shows a dependence on jet p_{T}
>> _Robust to pT-independent tracking efficiency effects -> should we
>> say
>> this a "robust" or "mild" "negligible" pT-dependent ?
>> We have not checked yet with pT-dependent tracking efficiency.
>> (Slide13)
>> _ last two bullets "Detector-Level measurement done in STAR p+p run
>> 12
>> and Unfolding in progress " I would just say combining "First
>> measurement of ECC in pp sqrt(s)=200 GeV is in progress in STAR"
>>
>> Cheers
>> Nihar
>>
>> On 2022-10-17 23:00, Andrew Tamis via Star-hp-l wrote:
>>> Hi Sooraj,
>>>
>>> I think I would like to show the PYTHIA results and performance
>> plots
>>> and hold off on a preliminary request until I get farther along
>> with
>>> unfolding.  Do you mean that I should show the performance plots
>> of
>>> detector level data without the comparison to PYTHIA/Geant?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 8:59 AM Sooraj Radhakrishnan via Star-hp-l
>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>> Thanks for preparing these nice slides. Since you show detector
>>>> level and generator level PYTHIA distribution are quite similar,
>> I
>>>> wonder if the results should be labelled STAR Preliminary, as
>> they
>>>> can be argued to be close to the physics results. Do you want to
>>>> show the data also at DNP or just the PYTHIA results and give
>> some
>>>> performance plots for data?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Sooraj
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 6:27 AM webmaster--- via Star-hp-l
>>>> <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Tamis (andrew.tamis AT yale.edu) has submitted a material
>> for
>>>>> a review,
>>>>> please have a look:
>>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/61351
>>>>>
>>>>> Deadline: 2022-10-27
>>>>> ---
>>>>> If you have any problems with the review process, please contact
>>>>> webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Sooraj Radhakrishnan
>>>>
>>>> Research Scientist,
>>>> Department of Physics
>>>>
>>>> Kent State University
>>>> Kent, OH 44243
>>>>
>>>> Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
>>>> Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
>>>> MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
>>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>>> Ph: 510-495-2473 [1]
>>>>
>>>> Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] tel:%28510%29%20495-2473
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>>
>> --
>>
>> Sooraj Radhakrishnan
>>
>> Research Scientist,
>> Department of Physics
>>
>> Kent State University
>> Kent, OH 44243
>>
>> Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
>> Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
>> MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> Ph: 510-495-2473 [1]
>>
>> Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
>> _______________________________________________
>> Star-hp-l mailing list
>> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>
> --
>
> Sooraj Radhakrishnan
>
> Research Scientist,
> Department of Physics
>
> Kent State University
>  Kent, OH 44243
>
> Physicist Postdoctoral AffiliateNuclear Science Division
> Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
> MS70R0319, One Cyclotron Road
> Berkeley, CA 94720
> Ph: 510-495-2473 [1]
>
> Email: skradhakrishnan AT lbl.gov
>  _______________________________________________
> Star-hp-l mailing list
> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] tel:%28510%29%20495-2473
> _______________________________________________
> Star-hp-l mailing list
> Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l
_______________________________________________
Star-hp-l mailing list
Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-hp-l