U.S. ATLAS HL-LHC Upgrade Level 2 and Deputies-NSF only Management Mailing List

[Stephanie Majewski <smajewsk AT uoregon.edu>]

Hi George, all,

I wanted to mention this before I forget, since it sounds like these are important for the NSF review... the 70%/90% float numbers look funny for HTT. The base float is 140 working days, which is consistent with what we discussed with Carrie and Penka. But the 70%/90% numbers are 259/312 working days. Does the float really increase?

Thanks,

Stephanie

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 11:52 AM Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu> wrote:

Hi,

So after our longish lunchtime discussion with Cathy and Lucas I believe
I was wrong in thinking we should not show the 70% and 90% schedule
contingency numbers.  Basically their first internal thought seems to be
that we are hiding large negative numbers.  This is one reviewer but
it's safe to guess one of the many NSF reviewers will go down the same road.

So for the August review we should probably show them...

Best,

Gustaaf



On 6/14/21 5:44 PM, Gustaaf Brooijmans wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> There are two issues with float: the first is that right now we're not
> sure what the L0MDT float actually is.  That should be fixable.  The
> second is that a) the needed-at-CERN dates are crap as the CERN schedule
> will be revised, and b) our simulation is based on baseline + the two
> covid BCPs so those projections assume no further covid effects, which
> is also crap.  That's not really fixable at this point in time, so those
> numbers are just that.
>
> If you show the required numbers, you're going to show that you're short
> on float by a few months for eg sMDT, and somebody will ask "what do you
> plan to do about it?"  And you'll answer "well, those numbers are crap
> because of covid."  Ok, next slide.
>
> I'm all for showing available float.  It's good to show we're not in
> negative territory yet.  But the 70% and 90% needed numbers have no
> value in my mind.
>
> Best,
>
> Gustaaf
>
>
> On 6/14/21 4:47 PM, Thomas Schwarz wrote:
>> Hi George,
>>
>> Are you sure we shouldn't show float?  The reviewers will want to know
>> what the float is, and I'd imagine they'd ask about the 70/90% CL, as
>> we had before.  Why don't we want to show it?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> ===================
>> Tom Schwarz
>> Associate Professor
>> Department of Physics
>> University of Michigan
>> Office: 734-764-8941
>> Lab: 734-763-7805
>> schwarzt AT umich.edu <mailto:schwarzt AT umich.edu>
>> ===================
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 3:24 PM Redlinger, George <redlinge AT bnl.gov
>> <mailto:redlinge AT bnl.gov>> wrote:
>>
>>     Here's a version of the summary with the float filled in (for
>>     information only).
>>
>>     It's recommended not to show the float nor the schedule contingency
>>     in the L2 talks because of the large uncertainties (see Gustaaf's
>> talk).
>>
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu
>>     <mailto:gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>>
>>     Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 6:28 AM
>>     To: Schwarz, Thomas <schwarzt AT umich.edu <mailto:schwarzt AT umich.edu>>
>>     Cc: Redlinger, George <redlinge AT bnl.gov <mailto:redlinge AT bnl.gov>>;
>>     usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>     <mailto:usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; Bee, Chris
>>     <Chris.Bee AT cern.ch <mailto:Chris.Bee AT cern.ch>>; cjmey AT iu.edu
>>     <mailto:cjmey AT iu.edu>
>>     Subject: Re: [Usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l] early risk
>>     simulation results
>>
>>
>>     On 6/12/21 11:27 PM, Thomas Schwarz wrote:
>>      > Ok, thanks.  So, looking at this, I'm assuming the only thing we
>>      > really want to show is the 70 and 90% points, as we did before.
>>     So for muons:
>>      >
>>      > image.png
>>      >
>>      > Will we be getting a float simulation, as before, too?
>>
>>     Yes, it's in the file you will get.
>>
>>      >
>>      > Also, what kind of questions should we be prepared to answer
>>     based on
>>      > the above simulation?  I mean, it says how our costs might end up
>>     now
>>      > with covid, but I'm not sure what I should be saying about it.
>>      >
>>
>>     Only the two COVID BCPs are in this, so further covid costs, but for
>>     most systems it's possible there may not be much more to add.  For
>>     muons, it's fairly clear: the base cost went up substantially, but
>>     the amount to add for 70% and 90% CL went down as expected when
>>     things mature.
>>
>>     I don't think you should comment on covid, but rather about
>>     evolution in maturity and risks.
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Gustaaf
>>
>>
>>      > Thanks,
>>      > Tom
>>      > ===================
>>      > Tom Schwarz
>>      > Associate Professor
>>      > Department of Physics
>>      > University of Michigan
>>      > Office: 734-764-8941
>>      > Lab: 734-763-7805
>>      > schwarzt AT umich.edu <mailto:schwarzt AT umich.edu>
>>     <mailto:schwarzt AT umich.edu <mailto:schwarzt AT umich.edu>>
>>     ===================
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 2:51 AM Gustaaf Brooijmans
>>      > <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu <mailto:gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>
>>     <mailto:gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu
>>     <mailto:gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>>> wrote:
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >     Hello all,
>>      >
>>      >     There are a few mistakes in the historical numbers in the
>>     file George
>>      >     sent.  (90% costs are base costs.)  Use this one instead.
>>      >
>>      >     Best,
>>      >
>>      >     Gustaaf
>>      >
>>      >     On 6/10/21 9:30 PM, Redlinger, George wrote:
>>      >      > Hi All,
>>      >      >
>>      >      > So as we just discussed in the meeting, I’m sending
>> around the
>>      >      > simulation results we have so far for Tile and Muons.  The
>>     tabs
>>      >     “Cost
>>      >      > Range Analysis” and “Historical” give the high-level
>> summary
>>      >      >
>>      >      > Concerning how we present this material, docDB 876 is
>> what we
>>      >     prepared
>>      >      > for the FDR:
>>      >      >
>>      >
>>     
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20190815.xlsx__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKWQB318$ 
>>
>>     
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20190815.xlsx__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKWQB318$ >
>>
>>      >
>>      >
>>     
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKeLSPzQ$
>>     
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKeLSPzQ$ >
>>      > 190815.xlsx>
>>      >
>>      >      >
>>      >     
>>  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20190815.xlsx__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKWQB318$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20190815.xlsx__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKWQB318$ >
>>
>>      >     
>>  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20190815.xlsx__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKWQB318$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/0008/000876/004/risk_summary_NSF.20190815.xlsx__;!!C5qS4YX3!QSZu1lka3aTsb6ZKXp0fcPTxUOMVMy0X0qojuu5TVb7W5MXO0CZyduHL1v7OKWQB318$ >>>.
>>
>>      >
>>      >      > Presumably each subsystem would show its piece of the
>>     table shown
>>      >     in the
>>      >      > Summary tab.
>>      >      >
>>      >      > We’ll probably have to discuss whether or not we want to
>>     show the
>>      >      > historical evolution.
>>      >      >
>>      >      > As mentioned, it takes about a day to run each subsystem
>>     so LAr and
>>      >      > Trigger should be appearing in the next couple of days,
>>     hopefully.
>>      >      >
>>      >      >                 -George
>>      >      >
>>      >      >
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>>
>>      >      >
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>>      > -l>
>>      >

--
Gustaaf Brooijmans - Columbia University
@Columbia: (212) 854 4527; Nevis virtual phone: (914) 591 2804

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
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