Star-fst-l mailing list

[董家宁 <jndong AT sdu.edu.cn>]

Hi Mike,

  Please find the pick and place XY file in the attachment or the following link (https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jndong/191210-output-files-t-board-v30).

  I think the copper thickness of 1/2 oz for outer, and 1 oz for inner is more common in China, which is used for v2.1 T-board. Anyway, the change for copper thickness is acceptable on my side.

  As for the dielectric/impedance control, we didn't give any requirements on it for the v2.1 T-board.

  Please correct me if there are any mistakes. Thanks.

Best,

Jianing 

-----原始邮件-----
发件人:"Capotosto, Michael" <capotosto AT bnl.gov>
发送时间:2019-12-11 03:45:18 (星期三)
收件人: "Aschenauer, Elke" <elke AT bnl.gov>, "Visser Gerard" <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
抄送: "Aschenauer, Elke" <elke AT bnl.gov>, "董家宁" <jndong AT sdu.edu.cn>, "star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov" <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
主题: RE: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL time

Jianing,

 

Would you be able to generate a pick and place XY file as well?

 

Elke,

 

1.2mm is a standard board size, it just wasn’t an option for the instant turnkey service from Sierra – I don’t think there should be much cost difference, if any. The V2.1 T-Boards are 1.2mm thickness.

 

--Mike

 

From: Aschenauer Elke-Caroline <elke AT bnl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 2:35 PM
To: Visser Gerard <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
Cc: Aschenauer, Elke <elke AT bnl.gov>; Capotosto, Michael <capotosto AT bnl.gov>; 董家宁 <jndong AT sdu.edu.cn>; star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL time

 

Dear All,

 

what drives the requirement for 47 mil (1.2 mm)  what will be the extra cost for a special order. 

What are the arguments against 31 mil or 62 mil.

Also I think we should order what we want as final product.

 

Thanks elke

 

 

On Dec 10, 2019, at 11:07, Gerard Visser <gvisser AT indiana.edu> wrote:

 

hi Mike,
                I think the thickness probably does matter, so you should prepare to make a "custom" order on this. I doubt it should be a problem.
                Of course if others reply here that 31 mil or 62 mil is OK then disregard this, but I expect it is not OK for the overall assembly.

                Gerard


On 12/10/2019 10:29 AM, Capotosto, Michael wrote:

Hey Jianing, Gerard,
For Sierra's turnkey services, they only offer 31 mil (0.787 mm), 62 mil (1.5748 mm), or 93 mil (2.36 mm) boards. You've spec'd a board at 47 mil (1.2 mm) - Would changing the thickness to 62 mil be an issue?
You also listed a copper thickness of 1/2oz for outer, but no spec for inner. It is more common to have 1 oz copper on outer layers, and 1/2 oz inner, is this an acceptable change? (These aren't controlled dielectric/impedance boards, is that correct?)
Thanks,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: 董家宁 <jndong AT sdu.edu.cn>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 12:21 AM
To: gerard visser <gvisser AT indiana.edu>; Capotosto, Michael <capotosto AT bnl.gov>
Cc: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
Subject: Re: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL time
Hi Gerard and Mike,
  Thanks for all the info.
  Yes, the smallest drill for v3.0 T-board is 0.3 mm, and the smallest trace width is 0.18 mm.
  All the related files for v3.0 T-board can be found in the following link (https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jndong/191210-output-files-t-board-v30) or on the WIKI.
  In the zip file ("T-Board_v3-gerber-191210.zip"), I have removed the needless files for production, and added a file named "README.txt" to list all the layers .
  Please let me know if you have any concerns.
  Thanks!
Best,
Jianing

-----原始邮件-----
发件人: "Gerard Visser"
发送时间: 2019-12-10 06:38:48 (星期二)
收件人: "Capotosto, Michael" , "董家宁"
抄送: "star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov"
主题: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL time

I do not know what a vendor is supposed to do with "pad master top".
It's probably not relevant for fabrication? Anyway, for best results
send only the data the vendor really needs. (And actually, I would
highly recommend a fab drawing including a table of the gerber
filenames/meanings, as well a drill symbol table, fab notes, etc.
But, it is OK to skip the fab drawing, just potentially there could be
a mistake on some design some day, that would be prevented by having a
proper fab drawing.)

 Gerard

p.s. I think my gerber viewer reports smallest dcode on copper layers
is 0.18mm, as you say below. (Which is a good min trace size for this
board in my opinion, and 0.3mm is a good via hole finished diameter.)


On 12/9/2019 5:22 PM, Capotosto, Michael wrote:

Gerard,

Just an FYI - I struggled interpreting the gerbers previously, I
believe Jianing is using Altium, and I've found this PDF helpful for
gerber output extensions.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__valhalla.altium.
com_Learning-2DGuides_OG0101-2520Gerber-2520Output-2520Options.pdf&d
=DwIGaQ&c=aTOVZmpUfPKZuaG9NO7J7Mh6imZbfhL47t9CpZ-pCOw&r=N2A24QGkCj7A
bOF7crfognJmNAcgV9UoqmVGwu4kPkg&m=kPiZunJ_lo_hPACD3KWTFstYK-qTeKOzE0
9SDGfmEEE&s=-_ZhTS9UinTzMAuaNNz-MAJrF9-MCT4fSFptn0ajXP4&e=

For example, it lists GPT as "Pad Master Top", and GTP as "Top Paste Mask".

Jianing, can you confirm that your smallest drill is a 0.3mm? The smallest trace width/trace space I saw were 0.18mm (Greater than the standard minimum of 6 mil/6 mil), were there any smaller? If I did miss any smaller this may affect the quote price.

Thank you

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Star-fst-l On Behalf Of Gerard Visser
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 5:01 PM
To: 董家宁
Cc: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
Subject: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL
time

hi Jianing,
 All looks reasonable I think. We should build it.
 One small point, it seems the wire solder holes have solder paste in the paste gerber data. This is probably not what we want. Perhaps the assembly vendor knows to delete it, or can be asked to delete it. It's probably better if you delete it though.
 [Woops. Now I see there are two sets of paste files??? E.g. ".GPT" vs. ".GTP".
And one of these has paste on the wire holes, one does not. My
suggestion is get rid of the files the fab and assembly vendors don't need or want. (Some/all of the "mechanical" gerbers are also irrelevant to the fabrication, maybe. You have a lot of files here, for a four-layer board.]  Anyway, I suggest proceed to build this but I think it would well for Jianing (and Mike) to first make sure about the fab files details.
 Thanks, sincerely,

  Gerard


On 12/4/2019 4:52 AM, 董家宁 wrote:

Hi Gerard,
    I just finished the layout for v3.0 T-board, please find the gerber files in the attachment or the following link. (https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jndong/191204-gerber-files-t-board-v30)
    Since the new year is approaching, I think it will take at least 4~5 weeks for production in China after your final approval.

Best,
Jianing

-----原始邮件-----
发件人: "Gerard Visser"
发送时间: 2019-12-04 05:32:29 (星期三)
收件人: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
抄送:
主题: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL
time

hi Mike,
 I think if we truly need more than two or so T-boards for first
tests, then this is indeed a sensible approach. Modifying two or
three or so, testing everything, making any further changes
anywhere (T boards and hybrids) if needed
-- hopefully not -- infomed by _complete_ results (pedestals/noise
and cosmics) from that testing, and then going for production
would maybe be better. But I agree modifying many of the old design doesn't make much sense.
 Jianing, would the v3.0 layout be ready to fab, or more work
needed in your opinion?

 Gerard

On 12/3/2019 3:04 PM, Capotosto, Michael wrote:

Zhenyu/Gerard and all,

I just wanted to get a jump and get this suggestion out before the meeting. I've spoken with John Hammond regarding the modifications required to the current V2.1 T-Boards, and we agreed it will probably be a few hours of work per board - removing the duplicate components, and adding worst case ~8 jumper wires, some of which need to cross to both sides of the board.

If we create new gerbers to match the V3.0  T-Board schematic, we may be able to do a fast turn turnkey run. Getting approximate quotes from Sierra Circuits, who we've used for turnkeys before, it would be ~$2,600 to have 10 PCBs fabbed, and stuffed for an 8-day turn. If this is something that Jianing and Gerard wouldn't have time to work on, John believes he can make the changes to the gerbers directly, and send the files out, if Gerard approves the changes listed.

If we were to also make 10 "test stand cables" using the new "purple" cable, we would be looking at ~$2,400.

It would cost another ~$1,350 to attach these cables to the t-board.



This would all come to a total of $6,350. We may be able to get this price down a little bit if we got quotes from local fab houses as well, and by combining the job of making 10 "purple cable" assemblies and assembling them to the pcb - this is a rough number.

I believe this may be a good option - we would have the new revision of the board with no bodge wires, we'd be using the production cable and testing with its dielectric properties, etc., a better representation of the final product; but it may be a tight deadline if we need it by mid-January. If you think this is something we'd be interested in pursuing I can start requesting quotes and see if we'd be able to have more definite numbers by the meeting on Thursday.

Best,

Mike Capotosto

-----Original Message-----
From: Star-fst-l On Behalf Of Ye, Zhenyu
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 1:00 PM
To: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
Subject: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 12/5/2019 9:30am BNL
time

Dear all,

We will have a weekly FST meeting this Thursday 9:30am BNL time.
The meeting agenda and bluejeans info can be found at
https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/yezhenyu/forward-silicon-tr
ack
er-weekly-meeting

1. T-board and inner signal cable - Jianing Dong, Mike Capotosto,
Gerard Visser Gerard is reviewing the changes to v2.1 T-board suggested by Mike.

2. Mechanical Structure - Yi Yang, Han-sheng Li Updates on the
status of mechanical structure fabrication and assembly, cooling
soft tube compatibility test, and transportation box design

3. Module Assembly at Fermilab - Zhenyu Ye Updates on module
assembly fixture/tooling design/fabrication

4. Simulation: Te-Chuan Huang, Krishan Gopal Updates from
Te-Chuan on FST geometry modeling

If there is anything else to report/discuss, please let me know.

Best
Zhenyu
_______________________________________________
Star-fst-l mailing list
Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
_______________________________________________
Star-fst-l mailing list
Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l

_______________________________________________
Star-fst-l mailing list
Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l

_______________________________________________
Star-fst-l mailing list
Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l

--
--

_______________________________________________
Star-fst-l mailing list
Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l

 

 ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-

  )    `\                                                      +

 /    '. |        Elke-Caroline Aschenauer  (she/her/hers)      =

 |       `,                                                      -

  \,_  `-/        Brookhaven National Lab                         +

  ,&&&&&V         Physics Dept.,            25 Corona Road         =

 ,&&&&&&&&:       Bldg. 510 /2-195          Rocky Point, NY,        -

,&&&&&&&&&&;      20 Pennsylvania Avenue                 11778       +

|  |&&&&&&&;\     Upton, NY 11973                                     =

|  |       :_) _  Tel.:  001-631-344-4769   Tel.:   +1-631-569-4290    -

|  |       ;--' |                           Cell-USA:  +1-757-2565224   +

'--'   `-.--.   |                           Cell-Europe: +49152220025211 =

   \_    |  |—‘                                                           -

     `-._\__/     Mail: elke AT bnl.gov        elke.caroline AT me.com           +

            +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attachment: T-Board_v3-Pick Place-101210.xlsx
Description: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet