STAR HardProbes PWG

[Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>]

Hello Raghav,

Thank you for this explanation.
I think the picture what you try to say is not what we are measuring 
here.
it may get complicated when we use ratio of dM and M.
and also in this measurement we can only say about at the 1st split not 
subsequent emission.

So I am not sure to say
> > SLide:9
> > "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower"

Hence, It could be Ok to say
 "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower at 1st split"
or
 "...which indicates angular ordering of parton shower"

Let me know what do you think.

Regards
Nihar

once we use dM/M ratio and also
On 2023-03-24 18:28, Raghav Kunnawalkam Elayavalli wrote:
> Hi Nihar,
>
> > SLide:9
> > "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower"
> >
> > Looking at 1st split with grooming we can not say anything about
> > "angular ordering".
> > In QCD "angular ordering" it implies "subsequent emissions follow
> > specific ordering (either space-like or time-like) as a function of
> > time".
> >
> > Here we don't probe subsequent emissions as function of time.
> > I don't get how do we conclude "confirms angular ordering of parton
> > shower".
> > Please elaborate.
>
> These *are* different splittings. Lets take a simple cartoon picture
> of a jet that looks like this -
> jet initiating parton - q -> q + g  (split A)
>  q + g + g (split B)
>  q + g + g + g (split C)
>  q + g + g + g + g (split D)
>
> if you have SD select a ‘first hardest split’ - sometimes it can
> give you A, sometimes B, sometimes C etc.. it will give you the split
> that passed the zcut.
>
> if you end up selecting split A as your SD, your dM will be 0 by
> definition.
>
> Now, if you select on jets that have a large dM, you will likely be
> selecting splits B or C or D. but they will still be ’tagged’ as
> your ‘first hard softdrop’ split. but technically, they are
> happening *after* split A yes. so they are later in time.
>
> that is why, now if we select jets with greater and greater Rg, we end
> up seeing a larger dM and consequently, a flatter zg shape.
>
> Cheers
> Raghav
>
> **************************************
> First Name - Raghav
> Last Name - Kunnawalkam Elayavalli
> Pronouns - they/them
> email - raghav.ke AT vanderbilt.edu
> website - https://www.raghavke.me  [1]
>
> RHIC/AGS UEC member
> Assistant Professor of Physics
> Stevenson Center 6410
> Physics & Astronomy Department
> Vanderbilt University
> Nashville, TN 37235-1807
> **************************************
>
> > On Mar 24, 2023, at 7:21 AM, Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
> > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > Hello Monika,
> >
> > Thank you for updating your slides.
> >
> > I don't have any further comments on all your slides except the
> > following one.
> >
> > SLide:9
> > "...which confirms angular ordering of parton shower"
> >
> > Looking at 1st split with grooming we can not say anything about
> > "angular ordering".
> > In QCD "angular ordering" it implies "subsequent emissions follow
> > specific ordering (either space-like or time-like) as a function of
> > time".
> >
> > Here we don't probe subsequent emissions as function of time.
> > I don't get how do we conclude "confirms angular ordering of parton
> > shower".
> > Please elaborate.
> >
> > Thank you
> > Nihar
> >
> > On 2023-03-24 17:21, Robotkova, Monika wrote:
> > Hello Barbara and Nihar,
> > I updated figures in my slides and also rephrased some texts based
> > on
> > internal discussion. New version is uploaded on Drupal page.
> > Best regards,
> > Monika
> > -------------------------
> > Od: Barbara Trzeciak <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com>
> > Odesláno: pátek 24. března 2023 2:30
> > Komu: Robotkova, Monika <robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz>
> > Kopie: Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>; STAR HardProbes PWG
> > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>;
> > webmaster AT star.bnl.gov <webmaster AT star.bnl.gov>
> > Předmět: Re: [Star-hp-l] STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova for
> > Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review
> > Hi Monika,
> > I sign off your talk.
> > Please just update the plots on slides 8-10 with the final versions
> > (check with Youqi) and use better resolution plots.
> > Cheers,
> > Barbara
> > On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:58 AM Robotkova, Monika
> > <robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz> wrote:
> > Hello Barbara and Yi,
> > Thank you very much very much for your comments, I've implemented
> > them and uploaded v4 on Drupal page. I also updated page with
> > preliminary plots and preliminary request slides:
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/robotmon/Preliminary-figures-Jet-substructure-observables-mu-and-kt.
> > Please see my comments below.
> > Yi:
> > - p8: I am not sure if it is good to mention "See Youqi's details
> > at DIS2023".
> > I decided to leave the text on the slide since also Youqi has
> > something similar in her slides, but I rephrased it as Barbara
> > suggested.
> > Barbara:
> > - s28: why do you specifically show systematic uncertainties for
> > z_g ?
> > It's just an example how our systematics looks like and also the
> > only systematics plot with preliminary status from previous
> > presentations.
> > Best regards,
> > Monika
> > -------------------------
> > Od: Barbara Trzeciak <barbara.trzeciak AT gmail.com>
> > Odesláno: středa 22. března 2023 5:12
> > Komu: Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
> > Kopie: Robotkova, Monika <robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz>; STAR HardProbes
> > PWG <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>; Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>;
> > webmaster AT star.bnl.gov <webmaster AT star.bnl.gov>
> > Předmět: Re: [Star-hp-l] STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova for
> > Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review
> > Hi Monika,
> > thanks for the updated slides.
> > Please see my remaining minor comments below. And please update your
> > preliminary request to the drupal page with your preliminary plots.
> > - Add the conference logo on the first slide and add the conference
> > name to the footer of other slides.
> > - s8: The last bullet, you can add "\beta_1,2 = 0, z_cut,2 = 0.1"
> > - s8: See Youqi Song’s ... -> More details in Youqi Song’s ..
> > - s8, 9, 10: use better resolution plots.
> > - s28: why do you specifically show systematic uncertainties for z_g
> > ?
> > Cheers,
> > Barbara
> > On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 12:48 PM Yi Yang <yiyang0429 AT gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > Hi Monika,
> > Thanks a lot for the updated version. I only have two minor
> > suggestions on v3 for your consideration.
> > - p8, p9: the "boxes (yellow, green, and black)" cover the
> > information on the plot, could you please try thinner line for them?
> > - p8: I am not sure if it is good to mention "See Youqi's details
> > at DIS2023".
> > Cheers,
> > Yi
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 12:52 PM Robotkova, Monika via Star-hp-l
> > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > Hello Barbara and Nihar,
> > Thank you very much for your comments, I've implemented them and
> > uploaded new version on Drupal page. I also made some minor changes
> > based on rehearsal at our institution.  Link on my preliminary
> > plots:
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/robotmon/Preliminary-figures-Jet-substructure-observables-mu-and-kt
> > and preliminary request slides:
> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/robotmon/Preliminary-figures-request-Multi-dimensional-measurements-jet-substructure-pp-collisi.
> > You can find my comments below.
> > Best regards,
> > Monika
> > Slide-4:
> > Right side STAR detector pic, You need to use updated detector with
> > forward detectors.
> > I decided to put there figure from 2012 when data for our analysis
> > were collected.
> > From slide7 to 8, it is not clear what is "Rg vs. dM/M at the first
> > split" as title on slide-8?
> > You need to mention before what is dM/M?
> > People may not remember what is Mg? You need to mention here again.
> > I have the cartoon on the right and also the definition of dM, so I
> > think it is sufficient to explain it by words. I also added
> > Collinear drop on this slide.
> > -------------------------
> > Od: Star-hp-l <star-hp-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> za uživatele
> > Barbara Trzeciak via Star-hp-l <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> > Odesláno: pátek 17. března 2023 8:24
> > Komu: Nihar Sahoo <nihar AT rcf.rhic.bnl.gov>; STAR HardProbes PWG
> > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> > Kopie: webmaster AT star.bnl.gov <webmaster AT star.bnl.gov>
> > Předmět: Re: [Star-hp-l] STAR presentation by Monika Robotkova for
> > Hard Probes 2023 submitted for review
> > Hi Monika,
> > Thanks for the nice slides with a good story.
> > My comments are below.
> > - Add the STAR logo on the title page.
> > - s4: the STAR figure is a bit small. Try to make the text around
> > it, or just zoom on the detectors that are of interest here.
> > - s8: it's nice to advertise Youqi's talk. But it's a different
> > conference and you present here some of the results.
> > It would be therefore good to briefly introduce the Collinear Drop,
> > you can do this on s8.
> > - s9: you don't need "and dM/M for different Rg" in the title.
> > - s11, 13: remove "for two different pT,jet bins" from the title.
> > - s16: try to increase the size of the plots.
> > - s17: I suggest having the last two summary statements in different
> > colours.
> > Cheers,
> > Barbara
> > On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 1:18 PM Nihar Sahoo via Star-hp-l
> > <star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov> wrote:
> > Hello Monika,
> > Please find my comments on your nice presentation slides.
> > ___________
> > General comment/suggestion to all HP2023 and DIS2023 presenters:
> > 1. Please make a Drupal page for all your preliminary plots and
> > provide
> > us the link.
> > If you have already done that, please send us the link.
> > 2. While preparing your analysis plots for "STAR preliminary"
> > request,
> > please follow the guidance 1-7:
> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/pwg/common/Preliminary-figures
> > It saves our time.
> > _________
> > Slide-3:
> > For groomed mass fraction expression, the denominator one can use
> > "M_g".
> > Is not that?
> > If yes, then it would be good this.
> > Slide-4:
> > Right side STAR detector pic, You need to use updated detector with
> > forward detectors.
> > Please mention what is "Jet Patch trigger"? Or just remove it.
> > Slide-5:
> > Title: "Unfolding" -> "Detector effects correction"
> > …obtain particle-level distribution -> "…true distribution from
> > measured
> > one"
> > SLide-8:
> > From slide7 to 8, it is not clear what is "Rg vs. dM/M at the first
> > split" as title on slide-8?
> > You need to mention before what is dM/M?
> > People may not remember what is Mg? You need to mention here again.
> > Slide-11
> > Please comment on Slide-3
> > Cheers
> > Nihar
> > On 2023-03-17 16:03, webmaster--- via Star-hp-l wrote:
> > Dear Star-hp-l AT lists.bnl.gov members,
> > Monika Robotkova (robotmon AT fjfi.cvut.cz) has submitted a material
> > for a
> > review, please have a look:
> > https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/node/63008 [1]
> > Deadline: 2023-03-26
> > ---
> > If you have any problems with the review process, please contact
> > webmaster AT www.star.bnl.gov
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