U.S. ATLAS HL-LHC Upgrade Level 2 and Deputies-NSF only Management Mailing List

[John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>]

I am not suggesting they should expect it to be similar across L3s, just 
pointing out the inconsistent definitions used. Mike's table has some 
L3s that are essentially dominated by L3 mgmt labor, whereas other L3s 
have those left out and are really about postdocs+grad students.

                John

On 8/18/21 9:40 AM, Gustaaf Brooijmans wrote:
> I'm not sure why you'd expect the numbers to be similar across L2s.  Eg 
> HTT has always relied (excessively) on uncosted labor.  It's been a 
> problem since day 1.  And there are other cases where there is none.
>
> On 8/18/21 9:35 AM, Michael Tuts wrote:
> > Unless I missed a "...U_COST..." then that is what is in the RLS though
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:06 PM
> > To: Michael Tuts <tuts AT pmtuts.net>; Gustaaf Brooijmans 
> > <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>; Fisher, Wade <fisherw AT msu.edu>; Tim 
> > Andeen <timothy.robert.andeen AT cern.ch>; Schwienhorst, Reinhard 
> > <schwier AT msu.edu>; Novakova, Penka N <penka AT bnl.gov>; Michael Tuts 
> > <tuts AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> > Cc: Usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > Subject: Re: [Usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l] Some notes from CAM 
> > interviews - day 1
> >
> >
> > You should be aware that these numbers seem quite inconsistent across 
> > L2s, in particular since some show L2 and L3 management FTEs while 
> > others do not.
> >
> >         John
> >
> > On 8/17/21 6:58 PM, Michael Tuts wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > I made a backup slide for my talk tomorrow regarding scientific 
> > > (uncosted) labor (based on the July IPD file for time phased NSF FTE 
> > > but filtering on "...U_COST_..." resources. The first tab shows it 
> > > for L2 with a plot, and the second tab shows the detail for each WBS 
> > > L3 with a list of the specific uncosted resources. Maybe this is 
> > > helpful should the issue come up tomorrow - not that I expect it to, 
> > > but you never know.
> > > Cheers, Mike
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:51 PM
> > > To: Fisher, Wade <fisherw AT msu.edu>; Tim Andeen
> > > <timothy.robert.andeen AT cern.ch>; Schwienhorst, Reinhard
> > > <schwier AT msu.edu>; Novakova, Penka N <penka AT bnl.gov>; Michael Tuts
> > > <tuts AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Some notes from CAM interviews - day 1
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > So where this is particularly relevant from an EVMS perspective is 
> > > that since we don't pay for scientific labor, it doesn't enter any of 
> > > the standard EVMS metrics (it has $0 BCWS, BCWP and ACWP).  The usual 
> > > follow-up question is "how do you measure progress then"?  And our 
> > > answer is that almost every task with uncosted labor has at least as 
> > > much costed labor.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Gustaaf
> > >
> > > On 8/17/21 2:23 PM, Fisher, Wade wrote:
> > > > Hi Gustaaf,
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Carrie also sent a correction on the uncosted labor.  Somehow I
> > > > had gotten it into my mind that the question was about costed
> > > > scientific labor and couldn't turn my brain around after that.
> > > > Thanks for trying to get me on the right path, though!
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Wade
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Wade Fisher  -*-  Professor of Physics Department of Physics and
> > > > Astronomy Michigan State University Biomedical and Physical Sciences
> > > > Building
> > > > 567 Wilson Road, Rm 3233
> > > > East Lansing, MI 48824
> > > >
> > > > MSU Office:  517-884-5556
> > > > CERN Office: 32 2-B03  *  76-71756
> > > > Fax MSU: 517-355-6661
> > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.pa.msu.edu/*fisherw/__;fg!!P4S
> > > > dNyxKAPE!Xx7TqEOPoPQBDTMlZbKcNSJGWC_xTaX8KY-BidHNDQDTz-wlP9wWvXcA2lf4
> > > > taHYl8viNNy3INo0TKXKIoKYP5flBAeb$
> > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.pa.msu.edu/*fisherw/__;fg!!P4
> > > > SdNyxKAPE!Xx7TqEOPoPQBDTMlZbKcNSJGWC_xTaX8KY-BidHNDQDTz-wlP9wWvXcA2lf
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> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -
> > > > --
> > > > *From:* Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:14 PM
> > > > *To:* Fisher, Wade <fisherw AT msu.edu>; Tim Andeen
> > > > <timothy.robert.andeen AT cern.ch>; Schwienhorst, Reinhard
> > > > <schwier AT msu.edu>; Novakova, Penka N <penka AT bnl.gov>; Michael Tuts
> > > > <tuts AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> > > > *Subject:* Some notes from CAM interviews - day 1
> > > >
> > > > Hello Wade,
> > > >
> > > > Well done.  A few small mistakes listed below.  Two are also relevant
> > > > for Tim and Reinhard, so cc'd.
> > > >
> > > > -Yes, there is uncosted labor in the 6.8.3 RLS.  Quite a bit.
> > > >
> > > > -Schedule variance and cost variance are independent!  A schedule
> > > > variance does not create a cost variance and vice-versa: a schedule
> > > > variance refers to work not done (or done ahead of time), whereas a
> > > > cost variance measures the difference in planned vs actual cost for
> > > > *work done only*.
> > > >
> > > > -The one year delay in the schedule that was already implemented in
> > > > the need-by dates is not COVID-related.  It's due to the "original LS2"
> > > > delay.  There is likely to be another delay, that one due to covid.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Gustaaf
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gustaaf Brooijmans - Columbia University
> > > @Columbia: (212) 854 4527; Nevis virtual phone: (914) 591 2804
> > >
> > > Als sie mich holten,
> > > gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l mailing list
> > > Usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/usatlas-hllhc-l2deputymgmt-nsf-
> > > l
> >
> > --
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > John Parsons
> > Nevis Labs,         Email: parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu
> >    Columbia University    Phone: (914) 591-2820
> > P.O. Box 137        Fax: (914) 591-8120
> > Irvington, NY 10533    WWW: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nevis.columbia.edu/*parsons/__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!RMCHNiN2WR7GJMOGQylJUzmYbhnJSCTlCMBXVj0JW2F2-xUbxhnRSOuveexKeMnAJlpbOz_pjVAfnd0XzHaDeRmVxfRd$ 
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________

--
______________________________________________________________________

John Parsons
Nevis Labs,             Email: parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu
 Columbia University    Phone: (914) 591-2820
P.O. Box 137            Fax: (914) 591-8120
Irvington, NY 10533     WWW: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nevis.columbia.edu/*parsons/__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!RMCHNiN2WR7GJMOGQylJUzmYbhnJSCTlCMBXVj0JW2F2-xUbxhnRSOuveexKeMnAJlpbOz_pjVAfnd0XzHaDeRmVxfRd$
        

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