U.S. ATLAS HL-LHC Upgrade LAr Level 2 and Level 3 Managers Mailing List

[John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>]

Ok thx.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2023, at 8:18 PM, Xu, Hao <haoxu AT bnl.gov> wrote:
> 
> Thanks John. It  looks good to 6.4.4.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hao
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l 
> <usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of John Parsons 
> <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2023 6:44 PM
> To: Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov>
> Cc: usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov 
> <usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l] FW: supply chain risks?
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>        Any more feedback on the modified RRs?  I need to get them to Chris
> asap.  I made proposed mods to all L3s, so I need everyone to check
> (both NSF and DOE).
> 
>        Thanks,
>                John
> 
>> On 3/11/23 6:57 PM, John Parsons wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Hong,
>> 
>>     Good point!  I will change that one back to the original 3-6 months.
>>     BTW, during the steering mtg last week I asked Nicolas about the
>> progress on the French robotic test system (since they did not make any
>> presentation during LAr week).  His reply was basically "progress is
>> being made, but unfortunately not at the rate we hoped".  He said they
>> would hopefully be ready to start some initial testing with the system
>> in "about 2 months".  It sounded more like a hope than a plan.  When I
>> asked whether the plan is to then to build a second system to send to
>> BNL, or just tell BNL the "recipe" for building their own, he said this
>> had not been discussed yet.  I came away even more pessimistic than
>> before, and with the feeling that it will be months (probably at least
>> 4, more likely more) before you could be operating such a system at BNL.
>>  I did not get a chance to talk with Gustaaf after the meeting, but I
>> would expect he was also less than convinced.  If you get a chance to
>> raise the issue with the PO this week, hopefully they would be ready to
>> move ahead with the feasibility study.
>>     Regards,
>>         John
>> 
>>> On 3/11/23 2:52 PM, Ma, Hong wrote:
>>> Hi John,
>>> 
>>> The changes are all very reasonable except we may want to hold off the
>>> change for PA/Shaper’s external dependency as we are still proposing
>>> to PO that we need to reduce that risk by looking for alternative
>>> robotic test.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Hong.
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 1:54 PM
>>> To: Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov>
>>> Cc: usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>> <usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
>>> Subject: Re: [Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l] FW: supply chain risks?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>>         Just got back to NYC from a productive LAr week!
>>>         As Hong explained, we need to finalize SOON the two RRs (ie. the
>>> "regular" one and the "supply chain" one), so that the MC can be run in
>>> advance of freezing everything for the NSF rebaseline review.
>>>         I went over both RRs on the flight, and make some (significant)
>>> proposed changes.  I attach the new version, where changes are shaded in
>>> yellow.  Please take a look at your parts of both asap and let me know
>>> any comments.  This was, of course, largely motivated by the recent
>>> realization that the very conservative values we put in the Supply Chain
>>> RR back when it was created are causing a float problem for the NSF
>>> scope.  While those very conservative assumptions were sensible back
>>> then, when almost nothing in industry was working well and it was very
>>> hard to make any sensible predictions, clearly things have improved a
>>> lot by now.  For example, we have seen no custom ASIC delays, and in
>>> fact received the PA/S and ADC preprod wafers earlier than scheduled.
>>> We are finding no significant delays in PCB fab either.  There are still
>>> some delays for COTS components, but we can mitigate those by submitting
>>> the production orders early, using the "priming" scheme put in place by
>>> ATLAS.  Given all these very encouraging signs, I propose significant
>>> changes to the Supply Chain RR.  In addition, I propose also some
>>> adjustments to the main RR.
>>> 
>>>         Let me know asap if you propose any changes to what I have
>>> put in the
>>> attached versions.  We need to get these to Chris by early next week at
>>> the latest, so prompt attention would be greatly appreciated!
>>> 
>>>         While writing, let me also say that next week is Spring Break at
>>> Columbia and I will be away on vacation Sunday-Friday.  So unfortunately
>>> we will not be able to meet next Friday at our usual time.  However, I
>>> will keep an eye on my email, so let me know of any things to discuss.
>>> 
>>>         Thanks,
>>>                 John
>>> 
>>> On 3/10/23 11:51 AM, John Parsons wrote:
>>>> Just landed at Newark. I spent time on the flight working on the RR and
>>>> will send new version for checking later this afternoon
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 10, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>                 As John is traveling back, we are not meeting today.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                 There is a urgent request by PO to update the supply
>>>>> chain risks, which was discussed when we were preparing for the DR.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                 Chris wants to run the MC next week.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                 Please take a look at the latest risk registry,
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/cgi-bin/public/ShowDocument?docid=196 
>>>>> <https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/cgi-bin/public/ShowDocument?docid=196>
>>>>> 
>>>>> and propose changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                 The simplest is probably to drop the probability from
>>>>> 63% to a much lower level.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please also note Gustaaf’s suggestion to increase the FW complexity
>>>>> risk cost.  I am not sure if I understand the logic, that adding
>>>>> resources will increase the cost when there is actually no new scope.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>>                 Hong.
>>>>> 
>>>>> *From: *Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>
>>>>> *Date: *Friday, March 10, 2023 at 9:32 AM
>>>>> *To: *Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov>
>>>>> *Cc: *Parsons, John <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>, Meyer, Chris
>>>>> <cjmey AT iu.edu>
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: supply chain risks?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Hong,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Those recommendation were made in  summer 2021 because we had no good
>>>>> basis at that time for individual estimates.  As you point out, we do
>>>>> now, so you should feel free to update the numbers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> BTW, looking at BCP 1058, the FW complexity risk maxed out at $150k,
>>>>> and we will now have added ~$1M in FW effort.  I would suggest to
>>>>> revise the upper value on that upward, as I think we are likely to
>>>>> have to add even more FW effort if we can find it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gustaaf
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>     On Mar 10, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov
>>>>>     <mailto:hma AT bnl.gov>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>     Hi Gustaaf,
>>>>> 
>>>>>                     I had an exchange with John after yesterday’s 2pm
>>>>>     meeting.    John is traveling today back to the US.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                     We will not be able to provide the updated risks
>>>>>     by Monday noon, as Chris requested at the meeting, but we will try
>>>>>     to get it sometime next week.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                     We will remove some of the risks (PA/Shaper
>>>>>     preproduction fabrication, for example), but there are still many
>>>>>     left with very high probabilities (63%), based on the
>>>>>     recommendation we had when the risks were first entered.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                     Is there a new recommendation, or should we just
>>>>>     use our own judgement to update it?     The recent experience with
>>>>>     the vendors is not too bad, so some adjustment is warranted.
>>>>> 
>>>>>                     Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>>                     Hong.
>>>>> 
>>>>>     *From:*Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu
>>>>>     <mailto:gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>>
>>>>>     *Date:*Friday, March 10, 2023 at 7:25 AM
>>>>>     *To:*Parsons, John <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu
>>>>>     <mailto:parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>>, Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov
>>>>>     <mailto:hma AT bnl.gov>>
>>>>>     *Cc:*Meyer, Chris <cjmey AT iu.edu <mailto:cjmey AT iu.edu>>
>>>>>     *Subject:*supply chain risks?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>     Hi John, Hong,
>>>>> 
>>>>>     I think we’ll need your revised supply chain risks sometime next
>>>>>     week.  Is this possible?
>>>>> 
>>>>>     Thx
>>>>> 
>>>>>     Gustaaf
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l mailing list
>>>>> Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov
>>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> John Parsons
>>> Nevis Labs,              Email: parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu
>>>   Columbia University   Phone: (914) 591-2820
>>> P.O. Box 137            Fax: (914) 591-8120
>>> Irvington, NY 10533     WWW:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nevis.columbia.edu/*parsons/__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!B3TfNP6jTbYtvLDnsxsP559An5DDZw-RpPJyrkmPfbpprG8azL05DKYQGWM12xrh__-wh-2v2KgtciM_vVx0Ew$
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> John Parsons
> Nevis Labs,              Email: parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu
>  Columbia University   Phone: (914) 591-2820
> P.O. Box 137            Fax: (914) 591-8120
> Irvington, NY 10533     WWW: 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nevis.columbia.edu/*parsons/__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!GmUuAuFR5J2BYK0YCO0YAkjP9yr2w9g_ac7MbqSNAbIy6MLB-ZCKsg2oq6a3V1reaY-Vi7i9cu074n85v5PInFJatFxIhzl75M4rJRADxuzqqg$
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l mailing list
> Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l
>