U.S. ATLAS HL-LHC Upgrade LAr Level 2 and Level 3 Managers Mailing List

[Tim Andeen <tandeen AT utexas.edu>]

Hi John, 

Sorry for the slow response (I took a long week for the start of our spring break). 

I this is probably already running, but just confirming that the changes for the optics and ADC look fine. 

One quick question that I’m pretty sure I know the answer to. This is the risk of SC delays with respect to the rebaselined schedule, correct? 

Best, Tim 

On Mar 13, 2023 at 9:01:23 PM, John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu> wrote:

Ok thx.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 13, 2023, at 8:18 PM, Xu, Hao <haoxu AT bnl.gov> wrote:

Thanks John. It  looks good to 6.4.4.

Regards,

Hao

________________________________

From: Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l <usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l-bounces AT lists.bnl.gov> on behalf of John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>

Sent: Monday, March 13, 2023 6:44 PM

To: Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov>

Cc: usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov <usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov>

Subject: Re: [Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l] FW: supply chain risks?

Hi all,

       Any more feedback on the modified RRs?  I need to get them to Chris

asap.  I made proposed mods to all L3s, so I need everyone to check

(both NSF and DOE).

       Thanks,

               John

> On 3/11/23 6:57 PM, John Parsons wrote:

>

> Hi Hong,

>

>     Good point!  I will change that one back to the original 3-6 months.

>     BTW, during the steering mtg last week I asked Nicolas about the

> progress on the French robotic test system (since they did not make any

> presentation during LAr week).  His reply was basically "progress is

> being made, but unfortunately not at the rate we hoped".  He said they

> would hopefully be ready to start some initial testing with the system

> in "about 2 months".  It sounded more like a hope than a plan.  When I

> asked whether the plan is to then to build a second system to send to

> BNL, or just tell BNL the "recipe" for building their own, he said this

> had not been discussed yet.  I came away even more pessimistic than

> before, and with the feeling that it will be months (probably at least

> 4, more likely more) before you could be operating such a system at BNL.

>  I did not get a chance to talk with Gustaaf after the meeting, but I

> would expect he was also less than convinced.  If you get a chance to

> raise the issue with the PO this week, hopefully they would be ready to

> move ahead with the feasibility study.

>     Regards,

>         John

>

>> On 3/11/23 2:52 PM, Ma, Hong wrote:

>> Hi John,

>>

>> The changes are all very reasonable except we may want to hold off the

>> change for PA/Shaper’s external dependency as we are still proposing

>> to PO that we need to reduce that risk by looking for alternative

>> robotic test.

>>

>>

>> Best,

>>

>> Hong.

>> ________________________________

>> From: John Parsons <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>

>> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 1:54 PM

>> To: Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov>

>> Cc: usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov

>> <usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov>

>> Subject: Re: [Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l] FW: supply chain risks?

>>

>>

>> Hi all,

>>

>>         Just got back to NYC from a productive LAr week!

>>         As Hong explained, we need to finalize SOON the two RRs (ie. the

>> "regular" one and the "supply chain" one), so that the MC can be run in

>> advance of freezing everything for the NSF rebaseline review.

>>         I went over both RRs on the flight, and make some (significant)

>> proposed changes.  I attach the new version, where changes are shaded in

>> yellow.  Please take a look at your parts of both asap and let me know

>> any comments.  This was, of course, largely motivated by the recent

>> realization that the very conservative values we put in the Supply Chain

>> RR back when it was created are causing a float problem for the NSF

>> scope.  While those very conservative assumptions were sensible back

>> then, when almost nothing in industry was working well and it was very

>> hard to make any sensible predictions, clearly things have improved a

>> lot by now.  For example, we have seen no custom ASIC delays, and in

>> fact received the PA/S and ADC preprod wafers earlier than scheduled.

>> We are finding no significant delays in PCB fab either.  There are still

>> some delays for COTS components, but we can mitigate those by submitting

>> the production orders early, using the "priming" scheme put in place by

>> ATLAS.  Given all these very encouraging signs, I propose significant

>> changes to the Supply Chain RR.  In addition, I propose also some

>> adjustments to the main RR.

>>

>>         Let me know asap if you propose any changes to what I have

>> put in the

>> attached versions.  We need to get these to Chris by early next week at

>> the latest, so prompt attention would be greatly appreciated!

>>

>>         While writing, let me also say that next week is Spring Break at

>> Columbia and I will be away on vacation Sunday-Friday.  So unfortunately

>> we will not be able to meet next Friday at our usual time.  However, I

>> will keep an eye on my email, so let me know of any things to discuss.

>>

>>         Thanks,

>>                 John

>>

>> On 3/10/23 11:51 AM, John Parsons wrote:

>>> Just landed at Newark. I spent time on the flight working on the RR and

>>> will send new version for checking later this afternoon

>>>

>>> Sent from my iPhone

>>>

>>>> On Mar 10, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> 

>>>>

>>>>                 As John is traveling back, we are not meeting today.

>>>>

>>>>                 There is a urgent request by PO to update the supply

>>>> chain risks, which was discussed when we were preparing for the DR.

>>>>

>>>>                 Chris wants to run the MC next week.

>>>>

>>>>                 Please take a look at the latest risk registry,

>>>>

>>>> https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/cgi-bin/public/ShowDocument?docid=196 <https://atlas-hllhc.docdb.bnl.gov/cgi-bin/public/ShowDocument?docid=196>

>>>>

>>>> and propose changes.

>>>>

>>>>                 The simplest is probably to drop the probability from

>>>> 63% to a much lower level.

>>>>

>>>> Please also note Gustaaf’s suggestion to increase the FW complexity

>>>> risk cost.  I am not sure if I understand the logic, that adding

>>>> resources will increase the cost when there is actually no new scope.

>>>>

>>>> Best,

>>>>

>>>>                 Hong.

>>>>

>>>> *From: *Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>

>>>> *Date: *Friday, March 10, 2023 at 9:32 AM

>>>> *To: *Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov>

>>>> *Cc: *Parsons, John <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>, Meyer, Chris

>>>> <cjmey AT iu.edu>

>>>> *Subject: *Re: supply chain risks?

>>>>

>>>> Hi Hong,

>>>>

>>>> Those recommendation were made in  summer 2021 because we had no good

>>>> basis at that time for individual estimates.  As you point out, we do

>>>> now, so you should feel free to update the numbers.

>>>>

>>>> BTW, looking at BCP 1058, the FW complexity risk maxed out at $150k,

>>>> and we will now have added ~$1M in FW effort.  I would suggest to

>>>> revise the upper value on that upward, as I think we are likely to

>>>> have to add even more FW effort if we can find it.

>>>>

>>>> Best,

>>>>

>>>> Gustaaf

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>     On Mar 10, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov

>>>>     <mailto:hma AT bnl.gov>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>     Hi Gustaaf,

>>>>

>>>>                     I had an exchange with John after yesterday’s 2pm

>>>>     meeting.    John is traveling today back to the US.

>>>>

>>>>                     We will not be able to provide the updated risks

>>>>     by Monday noon, as Chris requested at the meeting, but we will try

>>>>     to get it sometime next week.

>>>>

>>>>                     We will remove some of the risks (PA/Shaper

>>>>     preproduction fabrication, for example), but there are still many

>>>>     left with very high probabilities (63%), based on the

>>>>     recommendation we had when the risks were first entered.

>>>>

>>>>                     Is there a new recommendation, or should we just

>>>>     use our own judgement to update it?     The recent experience with

>>>>     the vendors is not too bad, so some adjustment is warranted.

>>>>

>>>>                     Best,

>>>>

>>>>                     Hong.

>>>>

>>>>     *From:*Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu

>>>>     <mailto:gusbroo AT nevis.columbia.edu>>

>>>>     *Date:*Friday, March 10, 2023 at 7:25 AM

>>>>     *To:*Parsons, John <parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu

>>>>     <mailto:parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu>>, Ma, Hong <hma AT bnl.gov

>>>>     <mailto:hma AT bnl.gov>>

>>>>     *Cc:*Meyer, Chris <cjmey AT iu.edu <mailto:cjmey AT iu.edu>>

>>>>     *Subject:*supply chain risks?

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>     Hi John, Hong,

>>>>

>>>>     I think we’ll need your revised supply chain risks sometime next

>>>>     week.  Is this possible?

>>>>

>>>>     Thx

>>>>

>>>>     Gustaaf

>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l mailing list

>>>> Usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l AT lists.bnl.gov

>>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/usatlas-hllhc-lartl2l3-l

>>

>> --

>> ______________________________________________________________________

>>

>> John Parsons

>> Nevis Labs,              Email: parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu

>>   Columbia University   Phone: (914) 591-2820

>> P.O. Box 137            Fax: (914) 591-8120

>> Irvington, NY 10533     WWW:

>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nevis.columbia.edu/*parsons/__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!B3TfNP6jTbYtvLDnsxsP559An5DDZw-RpPJyrkmPfbpprG8azL05DKYQGWM12xrh__-wh-2v2KgtciM_vVx0Ew$

>>

>> ______________________________________________________________________

>>

>

--

______________________________________________________________________

John Parsons

Nevis Labs,              Email: parsons AT nevis.columbia.edu

 Columbia University   Phone: (914) 591-2820

P.O. Box 137            Fax: (914) 591-8120

Irvington, NY 10533     WWW: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nevis.columbia.edu/*parsons/__;fg!!P4SdNyxKAPE!GmUuAuFR5J2BYK0YCO0YAkjP9yr2w9g_ac7MbqSNAbIy6MLB-ZCKsg2oq6a3V1reaY-Vi7i9cu074n85v5PInFJatFxIhzl75M4rJRADxuzqqg$

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