Star-fst-l mailing list

[董家宁 <jndong AT sdu.edu.cn>]

Hi Gerard,
  Thank you so much for the careful checking.
  I have tried to improve the layout for outer hybrid, the details are listed 
below.
  1. I have adjusted the routing near the power area and also added more vias 
carrying power. But limited on the dimension, it seems difficult to keep 
enough power layout near the edge of the sector. Could you double check it 
again? If that's still not good enough, I will try re-routing.
  2. The temperature sensor are moved closer to the APV chip (chip 7#).
  3. As Zhenyu said that it's doable for Fermilab technician, the APV die 
attach pads on outer hybrid are not modified currently. If we need to update 
the pad clearance, how much clearance do you think is appropriate?
  4. The long skinny bit of top coverlayer between the two sensors is 
actually caused by the rotation of the two outer sensor footprint, which is 
7.5 degree in the old (7/12/2019) hybrid and 8 degree in the current version. 
Whatever, I delete it in the update.
  As for the inner hybrid, I'm also trying to improve the power layout. Maybe 
the better one can be used for the next hybrid production.

  You can find the updated layout (gerber files) for outer hybrid in the 
attachment or the following link.
  
(https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/jndong/191115-gerber-files-outer-hybrids-v23)
  If there is anything unreasonable, please let me know.
  Thanks!

Best,
Jianing

> -----原始邮件-----
> 发件人: "Gerard Visser" <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
> 发送时间: 2019-11-15 00:43:43 (星期五)
> 收件人: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> 抄送: 
> 主题: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 10/31/2019
> 
> hi Jianing, Zhenyu,
>       Zhenyu had asked if the inner hybrid (2.1) looked similarly in my 
> opinion. I 
> had a look at that again just now. Of course the 4th point below is not 
> applicable. As to APV die attach pad clearance, it is different on the 
> inner 
> hybrid and looks like on average anyway more clearance. I think it could 
> still 
> have had a bit more clearance though. (But, doing an angled layout can be 
> difficult, increasing clearance may be difficult. And anyway the real 
> question 
> is what do the bonding experts who will be assembling this think? If they 
> say it 
> is fine to assemble without risk of shorts then that is completely fine, no 
> more 
> clearance is needed than that.) The temperature sensor is closer to APV by 
> default since everything is closer together. The skinny power layout issues 
> are 
> there but not as severely; I see again one via carrying power where I'd 
> prefer 
> to have seen a couple of vias in parallel.
>       In summary I don't see any catastrophic issues there. It makes sense 
> to improve 
> the new outer hybrid, assemble a full module and read it out and see good 
> pedestals and cosmics and then declare victory and move on to production. 
> But if 
> for any reason the inner is revised these points should be addressed then.
>       Sincerely,
> 
>               Gerard
> 
> 
> On 11/14/2019 9:53 AM, Gerard Visser wrote:
> > hi Jianing,
> >      The outer hybrid layout looks pretty good, but I have a few comments 
> > for 
> > your consideration:
> > 
> > - I have some concerns about impedance of power routing on the hybrid, 
> > please 
> > see attached picture. Unless I am misunderstanding something, it is not 
> > too good 
> > and it could I think be very much improved with small changes in your 
> > layout. It 
> > is very hard to say how important this is. However I think the APV chip 
> > is not 
> > the best in the world for insensitivity to power supply voltage and 
> > noise; 
> > statement based on my recollections of prototyping for the STAR FGT. I 
> > think we 
> > should take care to make it as good as we reasonably can.
> > 
> > - It would be better if the temperature sensor was closer to one of the 
> > middle 
> > APV chips. Those will of course be the hot spots. But this is not 
> > critical, we 
> > don't really need an absolute temperature measurement from these, really 
> > we just 
> > need to monitor if temperatures are changing from whatever the normal 
> > reading 
> > turns out to be.
> > 
> > - I think it would be better if there was a lot more clearance around the 
> > APV 
> > die attach pad to other nets. You have 0.212 mm. This is surely plenty 
> > for 
> > building the hybrid, but I am worried about the die attach epoxy spilling 
> > out 
> > and risking a short. Have the Fermilab people reviewed the hybrid 
> > gerbers, any 
> > comment from them about it? I guess if they are not worried, I am not 
> > worried 
> > about it then either, as long as they saw this detail.
> > 
> > - Do we really want that long skinny bit of top coverlayer between the 
> > two 
> > sensors? (I am assuming the .GTS gerber is negative of the coverlayer.) 
> > Note I 
> > do not see this in the old (7/12/2019) hybrid in the picture that Yi 
> > recently 
> > sent. Maybe it was there in design and your vendor deleted it for you?
> > 
> >      Sincerely,
> > 
> >          Gerard
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/7/2019 9:48 AM, Gerard Visser wrote:
> >> hi Jianing,
> >>      I checked the schematics
> >>
> >> outer hybrid
> >> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/hybrid_outer_v2_3-schematic_0.pdf
> >>
> >> inner hybrid
> >> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/hybrid_inner_v2_1-schematic.pdf
> >>
> >> T-board
> >> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/T-Board_v3-schematic.pdf
> >>
> >>      I think everything looks correct in these. One minor point is that 
> >> we 
> >> probably have to change the resistor values (on T-board and on hybrids) 
> >> to 
> >> have less reflection on the CLK and TRG lines. The cable has a 
> >> characteristic 
> >> impedance (differential) of around 100 to 110 Ohms. (It isn't very 
> >> precisely 
> >> controlled, we should measure it when we have the cable, but it will be 
> >> around 
> >> that value. So we should make the input impedance of T-board and hybrids 
> >> assembly around 100-110 Ohms. I suggest changing the resistors R1, R2 on 
> >> outer 
> >> hybrid and on inner hybrid from 49.9 to 78.7 Ohm, and the leaving the 
> >> resistors R9, R10, R11, R12 on the T-board at 33.2 Ohm. Final values 
> >> have to 
> >> be confirmed after all the boards and cable are available for a scope 
> >> measurement. At that time we _might_ decide to change the value on 
> >> T-board; 
> >> the 78.7 Ohm on hybrids is very likely to be fine (and is of course a 
> >> lot more 
> >> trouble to modify on existing boards, so we won't want to do that).
> >>      [FYI in IST from the documents at 
> >> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/blog/yezhenyu/forward-silicon-tracker-ist
> >>  the 
> >> naively calculated input impedance 166 Ohms which is not right. I am not 
> >> sure 
> >> why, perhaps the documents are not really all correct. I think Ben did 
> >> look at 
> >> CLK & TRG waveforms with a scope and optimize these, although I don't 
> >> have any 
> >> record of it.]
> >>      I will have a look at new outer hybrid layout for electrical / 
> >> layout 
> >> issues only -- not for mechanical interface issues -- but I expect no 
> >> problems, it will look nice as the prior version did.
> >>      Thanks,
> >>
> >>          Gerard
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/31/2019 10:22 PM, 董家宁 wrote:
> >>> Hi Gerard,
> >>>    Thanks for your help.
> >>>    There are no changes on the connector part.
> >>>    Please let me know if you need any other files.
> >>>    Thanks!
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Jianing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----原始邮件-----
> >>>> 发件人: "Gerard Visser" <gvisser AT indiana.edu>
> >>>> 发送时间: 2019-11-01 10:14:39 (星期五)
> >>>> 收件人: star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> >>>> 抄送:
> >>>> 主题: Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 10/31/2019
> >>>>
> >>>> hi Jianing, Zhenyu,
> >>>>     Somebody was going to document (simply with a picture or two) how 
> >>>> that the
> >>>> connector tab of outer (particularly) hybrid fits well to the T-board 
> >>>> on
> >>>> mechanical structure. I think we should see this before the new outer 
> >>>> hybrid is
> >>>> ordered. (Is there any change in this aspect of the new outer hybrid? I
> >>>> understood no change.)
> >>>>     Meanwhile, yes it is in my inbox to check the electrical aspects, 
> >>>> I will 
> >>>> try to
> >>>> have that done by early next week.
> >>>>     Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>>         Gerard
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/31/2019 10:04 PM, 董家宁 wrote:
> >>>>> Dear All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     2.Hybrid, T-board:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     With the help of Mike and Gerard,  the address connection for the 
> >>>>> temperature
> >>>>> sensor chip on outer hybrid is modified and updated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     And the schematic for T-board v3.0 is also updated (keep one set 
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> temperature sensor and reset circuit).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     I think they are all waiting for the double check.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     If there are no other mistakes for outer hybrid layout, it will 
> >>>>> take 
> >>>>> about 3
> >>>>> weeks for the production.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     All the detailed status are listed on the WIKI
> >>>>> (https://wiki.bnl.gov/star/index.php/Hybrid_and_T-board).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jianing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      -----原始邮件-----
> >>>>>      *发件人:*"Capotosto, Michael" <capotosto AT bnl.gov>
> >>>>>      *发送时间:*2019-11-01 05:43:15 (星期五)
> >>>>>      *收件人:* "Ye, Zhenyu" <yezhenyu AT uic.edu>, 
> >>>>> "star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov"
> >>>>>      <star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov>
> >>>>>      *抄送:*
> >>>>>      *主题:* Re: [Star-fst-l] Weekly FST meeting - 10/31/2019
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      As discussed last meeting, I’ve compiled the documentation and 
> >>>>> posted 
> >>>>> it to
> >>>>>      the wiki: https://wiki.bnl.gov/star/index.php/Cables
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      T-Board/Inner Signal Cable:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      Last meeting we agreed we would use the IST-type of cables, due 
> >>>>> to 
> >>>>> cost. It
> >>>>>      turns out I misinterpreted the quote – we were quoted for 400ft 
> >>>>> of 
> >>>>> cable but
> >>>>>      they had a minimum 1,000ft order. It is cheaper as Gerard 
> >>>>> expected to use
> >>>>>      the Polypropylene/PVC/PVC cable. I’m waiting to hear back from 
> >>>>> Gerard 
> >>>>> on how
> >>>>>      he’d like to proceed. The updated quotes binder mentioned can be 
> >>>>> found 
> >>>>> here:
> >>>>> https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Cable%20Quotes%20Binder%2010-28-2019.pdf
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <https://drupal.star.bnl.gov/STAR/system/files/Cable%20Quotes%20Binder%2010-28-2019.pdf>
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      The quotes binder also includes new updated (non-expired) 
> >>>>> quotes, so 
> >>>>> once we
> >>>>>      have a decision we can order the cables. (Elke/Gerard/Zhenyu, 
> >>>>> will 
> >>>>> this be
> >>>>>      on one of the BNL accounts, or will I be sending this to someone 
> >>>>> else? 
> >>>>> If it
> >>>>>      will be on a BNL account I can start drafting the PO so it will 
> >>>>> be 
> >>>>> ready to
> >>>>>      send when we make a final decision).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      Regarding the V2.1 T-Board modifications, I believe we just need 
> >>>>> to 
> >>>>> remove a
> >>>>>      handful of parts to in order to make it work, I’ve discussed 
> >>>>> this in an
> >>>>>      email with Jianing and Gerard, and am waiting to hear back from 
> >>>>> Gerard. I
> >>>>>      will have the cables re-labeled tonight before I leave (to match 
> >>>>> the 
> >>>>> VIA REF
> >>>>>      DES used in V2.1 T-Boards we are assembling). Once Gerard gives 
> >>>>> me the 
> >>>>> O.K.
> >>>>>      I’ll pull the parts off the boards, and we should be able to 
> >>>>> give them to
> >>>>>      the assembler within a working day or two. If there are no 
> >>>>> objections, I
> >>>>>      will extend the due date for the vendor to November 29.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      If I’ve missed any points please let me know.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      Best,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>            Mike Capotosto
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Star-fst-l mailing list
> >>>> Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> >>>> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Star-fst-l mailing list
> > Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> > https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Star-fst-l mailing list
> Star-fst-l AT lists.bnl.gov
> https://lists.bnl.gov/mailman/listinfo/star-fst-l

Attachment: hybrid_outer_v2_3-gerber-191115.zip
Description: Zip compressed data